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Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

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Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#321

Post by hef19898 »

garmaine wrote: post #319
hef19898 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSUs are working just fine. I got them from Amazon, I was able to get largely discounted shares from EADS back the day. Tax wise Amazon RSUs were treated like part of my salary, covering taxes when they vested ranged from selling all and selling parts of the RSU or covering taxes cash and keeping all of the RSUs. The discount at EADS was treated as part of my salary. No problem whatsoever. INAL, but all these instnce…

I’m talking about startups, not big public companies. That approach doesn’t work so well when the startup shares are illiquid and no market exists to sell them at vesting or tax time. In the USA this isn’t an issue because you can make an 83(b) election with our tax authority which basically means “I elect to pay taxes when I sell, rather than at vesting.” So as your illiquid startup shares vest and you accumulate pa…

Which doesn't prevent companies from issuing them, does it? Obviously, I'm no tax expert. I did hear of enough instances where people in the US owed taxes for basically worthless shares here on HN.

And in case you assume the shares are going to be worthless, just sell to cover taxes when they vest. No harm to your bottom line. And a potential upside.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#322

Post by mattmanser »

reader_mode wrote: post #70
mattmanser wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France != Europe. This sort of thing doesn't exist in the UK, for example. As for firing people, perhaps France, but not UK. Most jobs have a 3-6 month probation period, with a week's notice either way, and in the first 2 years you can fire anyone for no reason (apart from reasons of race, gender, pregnancy, etc.). After that, by which point it's obvious they can do the job, generally you have to give a progression o…

UK is trying hard not to be a part of Europe it seems :) Anyway I've seen similar laws in several countries in EU, but I talked to a lawyer friend and he said he looked into it (briefly) and couldn't find examples of it being enforced through court in my country (Croatia). As for termination - probation periods exist for sure but passed that it's really hard to get rid of people, the two year thing exists if you give…

This story sounds like there's much more to it than meets the eye.

Again, UK, but you can't just move an employee around willy-nilly. This could be construed as constructive dismissal.

You might know the employee can't relocate, and are trying to force them to quit so you don't have to pay redundancy pay.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#323

Post by jlokier »

dragandj wrote: post #317
jlokier wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some science and technology investment projects like this in the EU. For example: > Horizon 2020 is the biggest EU Research and Innovation programme ever with nearly €80 billion of funding available over 7 years (2014 to 2020) – in addition to the private investment that this money will attract. It promises more breakthroughs, discoveries and world-firsts by taking great ideas from the lab to the market. Ho…

Horizon 2020? Yes, lots of paper was pushed and lots of fantastic reports written. It promised more breakthroughs and discoveries, but it only delivered tons of reports printed on dead trees.

Maybe so, and I'm not going to say Horizon 2020 is equivalent to Silicon Valley investment.

But it has funded lots of small companies doing R&D, which I thought was the subtopic here comparing with DoD funding, which also involves lots of paper and fantastic reports...

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#324

Post by watwut »

travisjungroth wrote: post #169
ChuckMcM wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

Your comment reminds me of this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/zackkanter/status/130493861651941... The cognitive dissonance humans are capable of is amazing. To actually say “We would never allow that in our town.” in the pejorative while flying back from a trip specifically meant to learn how to be like another town . If you’re not going to act on an author’s central point, don’t try to do any of the other parts…

> The cognitive dissonance humans are capable of is amazing. To actually say “We would never allow that in our town.” in the pejorative while flying back from a trip specifically meant to learn how to be like another town.

That is not cognitive dissonance. They flew in trying to learn how other town achieved goal. Once they know, they are still allowed to dislike the method or part of it.

But also, I don't the the non competes are the key part, because many parts of the world have weak non competes too.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#325

Post by watwut »

nkoren wrote: post #263
ChuckMcM wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy is a really interesting case for me as the birthplace of the renaissance. What happened there? And when? For an interesting deep dive into the role of Government in innovation there is a report from Price-Waterhouse Cooper[1] that I found interesting if a bit jargon laden :-). But it definitely calls out for a public/private partnership to be successful. I think governmental and banking stability has hurt Italy…

An important piece of context for the renaissance, which is often lost in modern discussions, is that it was not a movement which was attempting to be "innovative" or conceptualised itself as such. Rather, it was fundamentally backwards-looking: an attempt to recapture the glory of antiquity. People were digging up the ruins of a conspicuously more advanced civilisation -- which could do mind-bending things like draw…

Afaik, the old civilizations were rather rudimentary in perspective? There are some traces of it, but no mind bending anything.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#326

Post by polskibus »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #147
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Exactly correct. I tried to explain this to a public official from an east cost town who was flying back from the Bay Area trying to "learn the secrets" of creating an innovation hub. When I explained this situation (non-competes are illegal, stuff you do at home is yours) to him he literally said "That's crazy! Why would anyone hire anyone if they knew they could walk out the door to a competitor, or even to start a…

Doesn't it just solidify status quo where the always richest companies can afford buying whoever they want this way and hollowing out all potential competitors? Honestly curious, maybe it was great for innovation 15 years ago but now the market has solidified.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#327

Post by m12k »

blhack wrote: post #23
batmaniam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should rid of the term 'poaching'. There's no such thing. We're not animals, we are free to accept a better offer it comes along. The CEO should have counter offered with something more substantial, but he couldn't so the engineers went to greener pastures.

>but he couldn't so the engineers went to greener pastures. She.

They.

(I'm assuming you did your research and the CTO is in fact female, but it's better to teach people to use a gender neutral term when they don't know the gender of the person in question, and it is irrelevant to the discussion like it is here)

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#328

Post by tubularhells »

teekert wrote: post #292
alkonaut wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If I read my contract carefully I'm sure it has clauses saying I can't compete for N months, and that everyting I create on weekends no matter how unrelated (A hobby piece of software, a novel, a pop song...) is immediately the IP of my employer no matter which equipment I use or if anyone asked me to create it. All of that is obviously non-enforcable nonsense.

Hmm I also have that in my Dutch contract. I really don't like the way my current employer handles their market and I'm eager to do it right myself (I feel that with the right technologies I could really build something nice myself.) This part of my contract has kept me from it (the "we own what you make at any time of the day"-clause). I do understand the clause though, it's just to easy to claim you made up some va…

If you want to go for it, have the company or zzp registered under your spouse's name. The spouse can employ you legally and even transfer ownership once the contractual time is up. This allows you to go ahead with your plans while saving you from all potential headache. Of course, never brag about this online.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#329

Post by wdb »

mschuster91 wrote: post #274
KingOfCoders wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern France has wonderful weather and the Mediterranean Sea. The EU should start a special economic zone for startups there (a split of later taxes going into the EU budget).

On the other hand it's France, and the French are notorious for not wanting to speak English, while at the same time not many people from Europe speak French. Hard to build a truly European zone that way.

I think quite a lot of people can speak French, but have a similar stance against the French people, why would we speak French if you can't bother speaking differently language like English.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#330

Post by JumpCrisscross »

raverbashing wrote: post #134
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the consequences of personal bankruptcy in Germany [1]. They are severe and permanently close off entire career paths. Europe’s culture is less risk tolerant, fundamentally, than America’s. That said, entrepreneurship isn’t the sole path to innovation. Germany has a solid history of non-entrepreneur value finding. [1] http://www.privatinsolvenz-hilfe.org/en/german-bankruptcy-la...

Personal bankruptcy does not apply to corporate contexts. And it is much rarer than in the US

> Personal bankruptcy does not apply to corporate contexts

Most entrepreneurs have leveraged their personal finances at some point. I personally remember running payroll off a personal credit card in a particularly tough quarter. That route is prohibitively risky in most European countries.

> it is much rarer than in the US

That is the point. There is reduced risk taking in Europe. Many entrepreneurs’ successes are preceded by failures of varying magnitude. The American system’s willingness to forgive and forget creates lots of problems, but it also fosters an innovative culture that is comfortable with risk taking.

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