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Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

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Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#11
post #6
post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

It's funny as workers get caught up in notions of 'individual freedom', which they see as a benefit, but don't realize that systematically what this favours is simply power. A company with 100x the resources of another, never needs to worry about IP or innovating, because it just plucks off other people's work, integrates into it's own machine and receives the market surpluses, risk free. So yes - by getting tons of…

So it would be better for these employees if they were barred from going to work for Apple?

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#12
post #5

D.C., could you explain what part of this judgment you disagree with? Employees should have the right to switch companies and leaving a company shouldn’t bar employment in your field. Hooked is relying on misrepresentation and vague notions of trade secretes — If there were actual concrete IP theft (or even something like customer lists or proprietary technology) wouldn’t their lawsuit have focused on that?

Reading through it, there were some trade secret complaints: an engineer who re-created his project for Apple in a very short period of time, company documents that were kept and referenced by their former employees.

(I'm in no way taking Hooked's side here, but there were a few things that I can see them being validly upset about.)

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#13
post #3
post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

I don't understand why there is no Silicon Valley in Europe then

The reasons are:

1) The California employee rights, which allow an employee to resign and start a new company in the same area. Boston doesn't have an IT industry because of their onerous non-competes, even though DEC and Wang were located there.

2) European nations often have onerous pension requirements that must be met even before hiring a new employee.

3) Silicon Valley has willing investors.

4) Governments across the world prefer dealing with large entities because of the overhead in dealing with multiple companies, so without the right startup culture, new companies just won't happen.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#14
post #6
post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

It's funny as workers get caught up in notions of 'individual freedom', which they see as a benefit, but don't realize that systematically what this favours is simply power. A company with 100x the resources of another, never needs to worry about IP or innovating, because it just plucks off other people's work, integrates into it's own machine and receives the market surpluses, risk free. So yes - by getting tons of…

That sounds like something someone who has never been taken to court over IP rights would say. I have, and it cost us $10k to get told "you're screwed." by the lawyer that was suggested by friends as one of the better ones for startups.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#16
post #3
post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

I don't understand why there is no Silicon Valley in Europe then

There are lots of theories.

One of the main ones is that national policies around employee equity vary throughout Europe and are often severely disadvantageous (particularly Spain and Germany). Lots of European entrepreneurs are calling on policy makers to both normalize this within the EU, as well as making the policies competitive (e.g., [1]).

Of course that statement misses some of the “why not ”. The tax treatment in other states is the same, and several have similarly employee friendly policies. If anything, Seattle has become a clear rival to San Francisco, and has restrictive employee policies with regards to non competes (c.f., Microsoft used to sue high profile transfers to Google, Amazon sues ~everyone who leaves AWS, etc.).

I think the combo of those things suggest that it comes down to density and freedom of movement. Silicon Valley leapfrogged other places thanks to Shockley => various forks => Intel, Apple and others offering serious equity (the Boston scene didn’t keep up on this front). That fed on itself over and over again, leading to persistence. Seattle is now a powerhouse as a legacy of Microsoft and then Amazon, and all the folks that have come out of it.

By contrast, Europe has only had a broad single market for ~30 years. But it’s still super fragmented both in terms of laws and some would argue more importantly by language. 45 years ago when Apple and Microsoft were founded, they were able to hire any engineer in the US (and beyond) that spoke English. By contrast, most European companies were highly national with fairly minimal migration between countries.

Europe is closer now to the conditions of the initial Silicon Valley setup (freedom of movement, access to knowledge, everyone speaks a common language), but its decades behind in terms of a history of successes. I believe that the companies spawned from Spotify employees, and so on will spread throughout the European startup scene. But it still takes time.

tl;dr: Europe still has some structural barriers, and just a much “younger” startup scene.

Edit: plus it’s always important to remember that post WW2, most of Europe was spending its time recovering from the war.

[1] https://notoptional.eu/en/policymakers

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#17
post #6
post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

It's funny as workers get caught up in notions of 'individual freedom', which they see as a benefit, but don't realize that systematically what this favours is simply power. A company with 100x the resources of another, never needs to worry about IP or innovating, because it just plucks off other people's work, integrates into it's own machine and receives the market surpluses, risk free. So yes - by getting tons of…

> A company with 100x the resources of another, never needs to worry about IP or innovating, because it just plucks off other people's work, integrates into it's own machine and receives the market surpluses, risk free.

Which is why we're all typing this on DEC machines running OS/2 on AOL internet with 3Com modems.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#18

Sounds like a few engineers found out that Apple was looking into their company and knowing Apple was interested they took a new gig, meanwhile the CEO got upset and decided to fire the last remaining defecting engineer, who out of goodness of heart actually declined Apple, but gratefully took the offer once he got fired. Although it probably hurts to have your team poached, it sounds like potentially it wasn't a gre…

We should rid of the term 'poaching'. There's no such thing. We're not animals, we are free to accept a better offer it comes along. The CEO should have counter offered with something more substantial, but he couldn't so the engineers went to greener pastures.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#19
> The CEO settled on a new plan: Hooked would “sell” three engineers to Apple... Hooked’s CEO pitched the idea to Apple, providing background information about the engineers and sending their resumes. Apple responded that it might consider paying a “finder’s fee”...

Even if was inclined to take Hooked's side on this, it was a huge mistake to send information about those engineers without an existing agreement.

(Also: I wonder if the CEO intended to split that "finder's fee" with the employees she was trying to "sell".)

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#20

The idea that a company felt entitled to sell its engineers is preposterous.

Yep. Sounds like a very small startup that didn't give much equity to the few employees it had, and the CEO/founder had an overinflated sense of the company's value.
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