Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead • Hacker News Board

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#271

Post by perfunctory » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:52 AM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #234

perfunctory wrote: post #218

> By my count, this is the fifth time that the Japanese automaker has quit F1 Makes you wonder how serious one should take this announcement. > our current goal of "electrifying two-thirds of our global automobile unit sales in 2030" Sounds ambitious, but we know by now that nobody - no company, no government - has ever met any of their climate pledges.

They’re not electrifying their fleet by 2030 because they want to make the world a better place through technology. They’re doing it because in 2035 they lose access to the world’s 4th largest economy - California. No manufacturer can take that kind of hit. All manufacturers see the writing on the wall - they need to invest in EVs or perish. In 10 years if it looks like a majority of manufacturers are successfully ma…

> every jurisdiction will enact a rule similar to California’s

every jurisdiction has already announced similar plans. California is not a leader here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehic...

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#272

Post by faichai » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:53 AM UTC

neor wrote: post #211

manojlds wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who are not following - Ferrari "cheated" last year with their engine and have a secret "agreement" with FIA to cut out thr cheat which also meant apparently rebuilding a lot of the PU. They should be back on pace in 2022.

Part of the agreement is that Ferrari engineers are helping the FIA to police the other engines. The engineers on the payroll at the FIA don't have the time/resources/knowledge to judge the legality of these insanely complex powertrains. All manufacturers were forced earlier this year to provide detailed info about their Energy Recovery Systems, rumors are that Ferrari suspects the Mercedes ERS to make use of loophol…

Source? I find it hard to believe FIA would give Ferrari privileged access to other teams data.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#273

Post by pmontra » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:55 AM UTC

mdoms wrote: post #150

I have a theory that F1 is motorsport for people with no interest in motorsport. You can't possibly watch it for the racing, in a series where 90 minute races routinely end with over 25 seconds between each podium car. Where the fanbase fanatically opposes things like simplified powertrains, simplified aero and control parts, which would all result in far better, closer racing but would (in their minds) erode the pre…

> a series where 90 minute races routinely end with over 25 seconds between each podium car

That was more true many years ago (80s, 90s). The gaps are closer now. I'm checking the results in the table at the end of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Formula_One_World_Champio... (click on the GP code at the top of the columns)

AUT top 5 in 8 seconds

STY wide gaps

HUN top 3 in 9 seconds

GBR 2nd in 5 seconds, wide gaps after them

70A wide gaps

ESP very wide gaps

BEL 2nd in 8 seconds, wide gaps after them

ITA top 6 in 8 seconds

TUS top 3 in 8 seconds

RUS 2nd in 7 seconds, wide gaps after them

The problem is that we usually know who's going to win the championship after 3 or 4 races now.

Q. Is Mercedes dominant again this year? A. Yes, except from Ferrari in 2017 and 2018.

Q. Is Hamilton getting some competition from his team mate? A. Nope, except from Rosberg especially in 2016.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#274

Post by speedgoose » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:58 AM UTC

axegon_ wrote: post #270

speedgoose wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main reason was the diesel gate. Volkswagen canceled the project.

Nah, diesel gate was 2009. The idea for supplying engines to F1 was after Porsche retired from LMP1 in 2017 or 2018. Afaik the idea was to substitute LMP1 for the outrageous costs involved(despite their 3 consecutive world titles) and put the effort into building F1 engines.

You are right, I was thinking about the volkswagen project to join F1 around 2010.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#275

Post by VBprogrammer » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #200

remus wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Do you mean there toe in steering setup? If so I don't think that's really cheating as it's a loophole in the rules rather than a contravention of the rules.

Yeah, and exploiting loopholes in the rules is as old as F1. You follow them to the letter, gain an advantage, hopefully win a championship, and then the FIA specifically bans what you did for future years.

For me this is F1. If someone wants to create a competing racing class with standardised chassis and engines then that's fine too. But it isn't F1.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#276

Post by draugadrotten » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

notnap wrote: post #240

Buttons840 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of seeing a top dragster. The engine "noise" visibly blurred my vision because it was physically vibrating my head.

“Thunder Valley” experience at Sonoma (is the first row experience next to beginning of the launch strip) is a worthy upgrade

Now you know why musk builds Merlins, Kesters and Raptors and not just Teslas.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#277

Post by oarsinsync » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

Milner08 wrote: post #252

mcv wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, how would it be dead in 5 years? That sounds every bit as hyperbolic.

Because only a small set of teams would be able to afford the testing, and you'd end up with a tiny starting grid with only a few cars. It'd be crap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_Grand_Prix...

It's not been interesting for a while. There may be > 10 cars, but there's very few that actually make it to a win, and there's been only one that's mattered each year for almost a decade.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#278

Post by magicalhippo » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

alexb7c4 wrote: post #120

GhostVII wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there problem is that it's just boring to watch because they are so fast - it is extremely hard to pass without hacks like DRS, which makes F1 races really boring to watch. And I'm sure most fans would much rather switch back to the v10 engines even though they are more "obsolete", a conventional powertrain doesn't make them any more boring to watch (it actually makes them more exciting imo). And if battery t…

Any suggestions of racing series more interesting than F1? I tried to watch Blancpain, Super GT, IMSA, Le Mans - all of them seem to have almost non-existent level of overtaking (even worse than in F1 imho)

I watched a few Supercars[1] races recently, found it quite entertaining.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercars_Championship

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#279

Post by VBprogrammer » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #205

domlebo70 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true though, when you factor in weight? A 1000hp LS based turbo engine for 150kg?

A bit more than that, but LS motors are light for their power. Full street dress is about 210kg. I’m sure you could shed quite a bit of that right a way (you don’t need things like power steering or an alternator.)

My initial response to that was to snear at the idea of F1 engines with push rods.

But in all honesty, you have to hand it to the old American V8, it is at a hell of a local maxima.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#280

Post by Ichthypresbyter » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 9:20 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #47

smcl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right - I can see an argument being made between Moto GP over F1 (less emphasis on starting position, far more passing) but not Rally over F1 as it's a different beast. I used to love F1 (partly since it was often well timed for hungover Sundays off work for me when I was at university) so I really get both the fun and the frustrations with Formula 1.

The other thing that makes MotoGP much more interesting are that the races, being a good bit shorter, are made without pitstops. So the driver wins on the track, and not the pit crew in the pits.

There's also limited communication- the drivers can receive text messages from their pit crew and race direction, but there is no voice communication and no way for the driver to reply - and most teams still use traditional pit boards.