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Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

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Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#41

Post by Erwin »

milchek wrote: post #34
idclip wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means corruption is a basic human behavior. Its a self generating phenomena, and is „natural“. So there is no „illuminati“ to go after to solve this. Studies try and see how problems can be solved - if there was a single organizing entity like a mafia boss, it would be simpler to tackle the issue but there isn't, so its Marder than first expected. As to tax evasion, id posit the question „so why are these people e…

> Can they be otherwise somehow incentivized to invest in their Communities rather than evade? And how big is the contribution here? Is it worth pursuing I like this question. It makes me wonder what society would look like if we had micro community councils that operated this way, where residents “donated” parts of their wealth and those donations gave them some sort of stake, naming right, or voting power in commun…

That society already exists in e.g. Nordic countries. If we look at Sweden, Finland etc, total tax revenues as percentage of GDP are 48-54%. In USA, they are 24.3%.

So here's a smaller community where the majority is fine with high taxation in exchange for freely available health care, higher education etc.

Family funds exist here (e.g. Novo Nordisk is 25% owned by a humanitarian fund, Mærsk) but are less important than US.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#42

Post by barumi »

karlp wrote: post #40
nullsense wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is most certainly not what the study means. If you were going to extrapolate, you might be able to get away with corruption is basic rich people behavior, but even that is going way further than what the study is actually saying. Corruption is incredibly widespread globally across all demographics. It tends to show up the least in WEIRD places, and be most obvious in poorer countries, but it's everywhere and ev…

> It tends to show up the least in WEIRD places What do you mean by that?

I'm not the OP, but to me the world "corruption" is a blanket term used to refer to the apparent or actual distortion of a system for personal gain.

Thus corruption can be found on any system, no matter the scale, and regardless of the shape and form of the gain that may be attained.

This definition implies that hypothetical cases such as a college professor using his right to park free of charge on campus to store his car collection, or a secretary using the company's printer to print out fliers, might surprise people who believe that corruption is the fruit of sinister morally and ethically empty sociopaths who are super wealthy and very powerful.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#43

Post by watwut »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #37
troughway wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when you try to explain to HN that things are rigged and that "competitors" at higher levels know each other personally because even their kids attend the same schools gets you flagged, downvoted and warned, there is really no point in doing so anymore. Not important at this point. Let the idiots graze the pasture.

I'm confident HN could handle an explanation of that that's evidence-based, or at least presents a self-consistent model, and doesn't just peddle conspiracy theories. If you have one, please share (or link to a previous discussion). I'm somewhat open to this view, given that it seems like a reasonable explanation that a good chunk of the influential people have gone through the same few schools, socialize in the same…

In all seriousness, given that "good chunk of the influential people have gone through the same few schools, socialize in the same circles, etc" how come that "things are rigged and that competitors at higher levels know each other personally because even their kids attend the same schools" is seen as conspiracy theory and "fair meritocracy" interpretation is seen as self evident not requiring any evidence?

It is not just top. Pretty much everyone have seen how this or that incapable person comes the ranks or how someone got leadership because he is son of the right person. Right person can be owner, or is not like it would be even illegal. Even the president is someone like that, someone whose achievements are all build on lies and excessive benefit of doubt due to his family of origin. The advisor is guy exactly like that too.

But somehow, telling that this is how things work is still conspiracy theory.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#44

Post by T-A »

karlp wrote: post #40
nullsense wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is most certainly not what the study means. If you were going to extrapolate, you might be able to get away with corruption is basic rich people behavior, but even that is going way further than what the study is actually saying. Corruption is incredibly widespread globally across all demographics. It tends to show up the least in WEIRD places, and be most obvious in poorer countries, but it's everywhere and ev…

> It tends to show up the least in WEIRD places What do you mean by that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology#WEIRD_bias

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#45

Post by trhway »

chii wrote: post #35
milchek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can they be otherwise somehow incentivized to invest in their Communities rather than evade? And how big is the contribution here? Is it worth pursuing I like this question. It makes me wonder what society would look like if we had micro community councils that operated this way, where residents “donated” parts of their wealth and those donations gave them some sort of stake, naming right, or voting power in commun…

> or voting power in community projects. but then they get called lobbyists when this happens.

the issue with lobbying is that too many and too large benefits is effectively sold for very cheap by the politicians selling stuff which aren't really theirs to start with. For example,a huge development should be permitted not in exchange for small political contribution. Instead the community should get something sizeable in return - new park, road, school, significant number of low income rentals, etc.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#46

Post by T-A »

Erwin wrote: post #41
milchek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can they be otherwise somehow incentivized to invest in their Communities rather than evade? And how big is the contribution here? Is it worth pursuing I like this question. It makes me wonder what society would look like if we had micro community councils that operated this way, where residents “donated” parts of their wealth and those donations gave them some sort of stake, naming right, or voting power in commun…

That society already exists in e.g. Nordic countries. If we look at Sweden, Finland etc, total tax revenues as percentage of GDP are 48-54%. In USA, they are 24.3%. So here's a smaller community where the majority is fine with high taxation in exchange for freely available health care, higher education etc. Family funds exist here (e.g. Novo Nordisk is 25% owned by a humanitarian fund, Mærsk) but are less important t…

That's just a higher level of taxation (i.e. mandatory), not the donations (i.e. voluntary) in exchange for naming rights or direct influence which parent is talking about.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#47

Post by hdjdbtbgwjsn »

T-A wrote: post #46
Erwin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That society already exists in e.g. Nordic countries. If we look at Sweden, Finland etc, total tax revenues as percentage of GDP are 48-54%. In USA, they are 24.3%. So here's a smaller community where the majority is fine with high taxation in exchange for freely available health care, higher education etc. Family funds exist here (e.g. Novo Nordisk is 25% owned by a humanitarian fund, Mærsk) but are less important t…

That's just a higher level of taxation (i.e. mandatory), not the donations (i.e. voluntary) in exchange for naming rights or direct influence which parent is talking about.

In practice people that object to the taxes just move away.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#48

Post by T-A »

hdjdbtbgwjsn wrote: post #47
T-A wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a higher level of taxation (i.e. mandatory), not the donations (i.e. voluntary) in exchange for naming rights or direct influence which parent is talking about.

In practice people that object to the taxes just move away.

Some do, but changing countries is not that easy.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#49

Post by ivanhoe »

Erwin wrote: post #41
milchek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can they be otherwise somehow incentivized to invest in their Communities rather than evade? And how big is the contribution here? Is it worth pursuing I like this question. It makes me wonder what society would look like if we had micro community councils that operated this way, where residents “donated” parts of their wealth and those donations gave them some sort of stake, naming right, or voting power in commun…

That society already exists in e.g. Nordic countries. If we look at Sweden, Finland etc, total tax revenues as percentage of GDP are 48-54%. In USA, they are 24.3%. So here's a smaller community where the majority is fine with high taxation in exchange for freely available health care, higher education etc. Family funds exist here (e.g. Novo Nordisk is 25% owned by a humanitarian fund, Mærsk) but are less important t…

> So here's a smaller community where the majority is fine with high taxation

Yes, but it's not the majority that runs offshore companies in Panama, but those rich enough that it makes sense for them to go through the trouble of setting offshore companies up.

And IMHO the problem is in simple psychology of how humans compare between themselves. We don't compare in absolute means, but relative to people around us. If you're a middle class and you pay the same taxes as everyone else around you, you might grumble a bit, but in the end you'll except it as a part of life, because, well, everybody does it. If you make a lot more money than others and thus have to pay a lot more taxes, you'll perceive it as an injustice, being punished by mediocrity for your success. And you'll have a much less of morale dilemma should you try avoid paying it.

Re: Structural studies of the global networks exposed in the Panama papers

#50

Post by fit2rule »

idclip wrote: post #21
wombatmobile wrote: post #7

> In recent history, the Panama Papers have comprised one of the largest and most influential leaks detailing information on offshore entities, company officers and financial (and legal) intermediaries, and has led to a global exposé of corruption and tax evasion. A systematic analysis of this information can provide valuable insights into the structure and properties of these entities and the relations between them.…

It means corruption is a basic human behavior. Its a self generating phenomena, and is „natural“. So there is no „illuminati“ to go after to solve this. Studies try and see how problems can be solved - if there was a single organizing entity like a mafia boss, it would be simpler to tackle the issue but there isn't, so its Marder than first expected. As to tax evasion, id posit the question „so why are these people e…

They're evading because taxation is based on income.

If it were based on expenditure, there'd be no avoiding.

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