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Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

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Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#241

Post by dspillett »

animationwill wrote: post #225
dspillett wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is people being offended on behalf of others (which is itself not a bad thing: we should be conscious of where we might be using culturally significant signals inappropriately, or otherwise causing offence) but being hyper-sensitive and seeing offence where it doesn't really exist in the groups that they think they are standing up for. > pre-occupied with continuing a culture of segregation I think were "cu…

> Finding the right balance point can be difficult. The dividing lines between cultural appreciation, cultural mixing, cultural appropriation, and cultural subjugation, while sometimes obvious & clear are often much more subjective In my opinion, this hypersensitivity was turned into a weapon to shame people who have no ill-will. Compounded with Twitter bandwagoning, it’s downright dangerous, and now people are self-…

It is sometimes weaponised, often as a distraction method in political discussions, or as a defensive come-back ("yeah, I X, but you Y"), but from what I've seen it is more often people being overly sensitive and/or with too much time on their hands and looking for something to discus.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#243

Post by akvadrako »

romanoderoma wrote: post #218

> but that doesn't mean we don't have racism Absolutely right! We do have racism. But "systemic racism" is on a whole another level in US. It's in the system means "you can be shot and killed just because you are of some ethnicity" by those that sworn to protect and serve. I'm scared only thinking about it. I would live in constant fear. Plus, it is true that Europe society is not racism free, it is also true that US…

> But "systemic racism" is on a whole another level in US.

You have a very skewed view of race relations in the US. Racist police is a popular media narrative, but it's not backed up by evidence.

Cops are more likely to kill a white fugitive then a black one; black cops are just as likely to kill as white cops; many victims of police violence are white; etc...

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#244

Post by HowFarFallen »

onion2k wrote: post #75
HowFarFallen wrote: post #26

>I have privilege as a White person because I can do all of these things without thinking twice about it … I can go jogging (#AmaudArbery). I can relax in the comfort of my own home (#BothemSean and #AtatianaJefferson). I can ask for help after being in a car crash (#Jonathan Ferrell and #RenishaMcBride). I can have a cellphone (#StephonClark). I can leave a party to get to safety (#JordanEdwards). I can play loud mu…

But why is it so common in the BLM movement to rally behind violent criminals on the receiving end of justifiable responses? Are you seriously trying to assert that ending someone's life is a justifiable response to them shoplifting or trespassing? No doubt these are crimes, and the people doing them should not have been doing them, but the suggestion that the inevitable outcome is someone dying is completely ridicul…

I'm sure you're not being disingenuous so I'll politely remind you of the part in each of those events where the deceased attempted to wrestle control of a firearm.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#245

Post by Macha »

netcan wrote: post #50

American cultural influence has always been substantial, but since Trump and the hyper-interesting reality TV politics of recent years... it's on a hole new level. Here (in Ireland), the Brexit show (slightly receding) and Trump show have eclipsed local politics by a long shot. ROI politics are a distant fourth (after NI), in terms of affecting the local political conversation. It has become truly absurd. The average…

I think it depends on your social circles.

Recent Irish politicians my experience is that most people know:

Michael D, Leo Varadkar, Micheal Martin, Mary Lou, Simon Coveney, Phil Hogan, Paul Murphy, Ming

Recent UK politicians my experience is that most people know:

Boris Johnson, Theresa May, Bercow, Arlene Foster, Jeremy Corbyn

Recent US politicians that most people know:

Trump, Hilary Clinton, Ted Cruz, Joe Biden, Obama

People who follow politics more closely might also know Irish politications like Simon Harris or Stephen Donnelly, Eamon Ryan or their local TDs, UK politicians like Gove, Rees-Mogg and Nicola Sturgeon, and US politicians like AOC or Mitch McConnell. And of course you get people who look way more closely into politics with a much broader view of things or much deeper for a specific country.

But also in terms of potential impact on Ireland, the reality is that the order is:

1. COVID-19

2. Brexit

3. Anything else the coalition government is likely to get passed.

So it's not surprising that Brexit and consequently UK politics have had such an outsized influence these past few years.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#246

Post by akvadrako »

transpostmeta wrote: post #133
jtbayly wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people watching American news and for instance adopting "all cops are bastards" attitude is just dumb in so many way Now you know how many of us in the USA feel. Yet for some reason it seems you assume that it is correct in the US. Why? If the simple fact that this social phenomenon is happening here is what validates it, then why complain when it starts happening where you live? If, on the other hand, the we are n…

It's not the same. There really IS footage of USA police shooting innocent black people. There exists no such footage in Switzerland. Swiss people protesting against Swiss police because of this footage from the USA makes no sense. US population protesting against US police because of this footage makes sense.

USA police shoot more white people than black people. I'm not sure about the innocent numbers, but most people shot by the police of either color are not innocent.

You're argument doesn't show that police violence in the US is racist, just that it's violent.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#247

Post by tiago_o »

It saddens me to see this in Portugal too.

Last week some celebrities and online publications decided to highlight how proud we should be of having a black man with dreadlocks as a TV anchor. No reference or acknowledgement of anything else about him, just "congratulations for being black". At least for a decade race had been as noteworthy as eye color, until now.

Fortunately, a good chunk of the population can still see how backwards it is to reduce an individual to the color of their skin. But I must admit I'm not very hopeful for future generations when I see schools incorporating intersectional activism in their curriculum and people gathering to protest police brutality in what must be one of the most peaceful countries in the world.

It's a sad reality that so many people exist in this Goldilocks zone of damage, where they are in positions of power and influence while being ignorant and lazy enough to parrot American media without context or critical thought.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#248

Post by apexalpha »

doctor_eval wrote: post #43
waheoo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that isn't racist at all. Unfortunate, an injustice, a tragedy, a disaster, a systemic failure to integrate, yes. But racist? You're going to have to spell that one out for me. Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Thats a symptom of a problem that predates most of us sitting here in our armchairs. Talk about the real problem not the symptom, but whatever you do, don't start calling all whi…

Yeah, a tragic injustice that only happens to aboriginal people. If only we could do something . Edited to respond to your edits: > Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Unqualified statements asserting that a specific racial group "just commit more crime" is pretty much an applied definition of the word "racist". Isolated statistics about aboriginal behaviour used to buttress your assertion th…

One of the difficult things about racism is that it does not matter how we (ie, people of European descent) feel about it, but how the people we're talking about feel about it.

For what it's worth you are doing the EXACT same thing the post in this article is about: you are pushing a very American view on racism.

First of all, racism is absolutely not White -> Black. Or White -> Aboriginal. If you think that I'd assume you haven't met a lot of people form other parts of the world. Racism is everywhere and it's not a White-only issue. That's a very American view.

Second of all, it absolutely DOES matter what 'we' (white people) think of it. Saying only people we talk about get to have a say in this is also a very American viewpoint.

We really don't need to "defer to an aboriginal person", as you say. Just like this article states you are now assuming that all aboriginal people agree on this subject.

Saying we aren't qualified to say what's racist but we need a minority for that is the kind of generalizations the article pushes against.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#249

Post by nobody9999 »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #110
justinclift wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Er... that sounds incredibly racist?

I think was the OP was saying is that indigenous people are more likely to commit crimes because of the circumstances that are put upon them by the system, and that they also lack access to better legal representation for the same reason, and are therefore more likely to be convicted of crimes. Really, it's due to economic circumstance (I bet poor white people are convicted of more crimes than rich white people). It…

>Really, it's due to economic circumstance (I bet poor white people are convicted of more crimes than rich white people).

Absolutely. Not that it's anything new. Nor is it limited to ethnic minorities. Consider Anatole France's observation[0]: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

[0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anatole_France

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#250

Post by johnnycerberus »

drumhead wrote: post #62

Adele, the singer, was photographed at the Nottinghill Carnival (a massive Carribean street festival over the August bank holiday in London) with her hair in Bantu Knots and wearing a bikini top in the colours of the Jamaican flag. As soon as it was on twitter the you started getting tweets from Black Americans about cultural appropriation, but this was met in turn by fierce opposition from African and Carribean post…

Here in Britan, as I walk on my way to work I pass by my favorite Indian restaurant, a Polish supermarket with Eastern European products, a Romanian bakery with delicious Transylvanian meat pies and a great German sausage/cheese shop. Each one of them has their respective country flag at the door next to the UK one. I'm not even living in a big city and it is already a cocktail of cultures.
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