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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#601

Post by sellyme »

paulmd wrote: post #475
vr46 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and then when you check the specs, it says USB-C! https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs/ I was not pleased with it being an outside warranty issue, but I paid up just to get the thing fixed and back.

File a small-claims court suit, they probably won't even bother showing up and will just pay it.

If there's any company that's going to take absolutely every opportunity to continue with legal proceedings against the general populace even when they're clearly in the wrong... well, it's Disney, but Nintendo's probably a close second.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#603

Post by Hippocrates »

The usb-c pd/non pd compat issues are infuriating for me. I have a lot of devices that act funky when paired with the wrong charger.. plus it is physically inferior to lightning (durability, size, sturdiness). I see people clamoring for usb-c on iPhones. I hope that doesn’t happen. My lightning iDevices seem to be the only things that I can pack one charger for.

I hope we can skip usb-c and get the next thing right.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#604

Post by thayne »

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Did you actually read the article? The problem is that not all usb-c ports/cables/chargers are the same, but they all look the same.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#605

Post by wp381640 »

jk700 wrote: post #269
sq_ wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that they're in the wrong, but I would expect people to have some expectations about the quality, durability, and capabilities of a super cheap cable. Overall, I don't think it's entirely unfair to expect people to pay $10-15 for a quality cable, especially since these modern cables are often expected to carry significant amounts of power.

No, $10 for a cable with significant amount of power is unreasonable. If you ever dealt with some power cables, you'd know that 1 meter of the highest quality copper power cable for continuous delivery of say 15 amps (3 x 1.5 mm^2) shouldn't cost more than $0.6. And that's enough for 300 watts of power given 20 volts. But you probably will never see that much copper in a USB-C cable, at best you'll see third of that…

Power cords aren't that different - you can buy cheap and crap 6ft cords for $3 that won't last or you can buy construction-site worthy cords that get thrown around for $30+

Most charging cables get treated more like a power cord on a construction site - they don't just get plugged in and hidden behind a TV so the quality of the shielding and connectors is paramount to withstand the twisting and strains

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#606

Post by tpxl »

leetcrew wrote: post #348
tpxl wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sure, if you're familiar with the pinout Literally half the pins are missing on charge-only cables. >but I don't really understand why they are getting so much flak for it. From me, because my partner bought an USB-C to 3.5mm jack converter that refused to work with "this device only supports official huawei converters". That, and two completely different cables with almost disjoint functionality look _the same_. If…

> Literally half the pins are missing on charge-only cables. okay, but unless you know which pins are missing, how do you know you're not looking at a data-only cable? > From me, because my partner bought an USB-C to 3.5mm jack converter that refused to work with "this device only supports official huawei converters". That, and two completely different cables with almost disjoint functionality look _the same_. If the…

>okay, but unless you know which pins are missing, how do you know you're not looking at a data-only cable?

You know it's a different cable and that's enough.

>this sounds like more of a huawei issue than a USB-C issue. if a manufacturer is just going to refuse to support a standards-compliant cable, you're out of luck either way. color coding would be nice though, they could have made that mandatory rather than recommended. I'm sure companies like apple wouldn't give a fuck either way and would just go with whatever looked aesthetically pleasing, USB-IF cert be damned.

That is made possible by USB-C standard. USB-A and USB-B cables were too dumb to support that.

>you seem to already consider it reasonable to look at pins

The pinouts are the same for all different types of cables. It is literally impossible to differentiate cables based on visual inspection. The USB-C standard is a unified charger and a bunch of different cables in with the same connector.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#607

Post by dathinab »

danhor wrote: post #359
dathinab wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes only with either of following you might be in danger: - A dock, the alternate mode used isn't fully standard conform and prone to fry your switch. - A unlucky combination of cheap but fully standard conform charger with bad cable with switch.

The issue with docks were very non-compliant 3rd party docks which used 9 V for signal lines, which is way to high: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

Yes in practice it's very unlikely to accidentally fry your Switch.

Through wrt. docks there is some non standard compilant parts about switching to the "dock" alternate mode, maybe I misremeber and that can't damage your switch.

Anyway if you by anything but super cheap potentially broken chargers in 2020 I would be very surprised if it damages yours Switch. Especially laptop chargers tend to work very well with it. Actually I observed (but maybe wrongly) that somehow my Lenovo think pad laptop charger does a better job when charging and at the same time playing in handheld mode .

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#608

Post by imtringued »

rolobio wrote: post #260
vr46 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

From my research a few years ago, this is caused by the Switch asking the charger for 20V, but it actually expects 15V. The Nintendo charger obeys this hidden rule, but any other charger will happily provide 20V. I think the difference between a 20V and 15V charge isn't significant enough to blow the Switch up the first time you use it, but, over time it will blow up.

A device designed for 15V has some headroom. Probably 20V. It will fail immediately or it won't. The only potential variable is that your power supply is suddenly spiking to 21V or even more after prolonged use and that's what's destroying the Switch. There aren't many electronics components with a rated lifespan. Electrolytic capacitors are the most prominent ones and are easy to replace.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#609

Post by imtringued »

outworlder wrote: post #410
dx87 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo says you shouldn't use anything except 1st party cables with the Switch. There were articles a couple of years ago talking about Switches being bricked. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...

Why are they saying 'bricked' when they mean they were destroyed? 'Bricking' is normally a firmware issue. Do we say that a car was 'bricked' when we trash it in an accident?

Bricking is generally considered to be invisible destruction that renders a device useless but still cosmetically intact. People used to call these things paperweights with a hint of irony because there are lots of fancy paperweight designs. Nowadays people view such devices to be as useful as bricks. They are heavy and take up space but they are still intact and jokingly enough you could actually use them as construction material.

A car that was destroyed in an accident would not be considered bricked because it has sustained cosmetic damage. You can't use it for it's aesthetics alone. e.g. in a museum. A Tesla car where the battery charger has died could be considered a bricked car though.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#610

Post by imtringued »

kalleboo wrote: post #600
markstos wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mess isn't about you, it's about the rest of us. Old USB printer cables have a "USB-A" end that goes into your computer and the USB-B end for the printer. You can't mess that up. I've recently handled multiple support calls from a family member due to USB-C confusion. I have to explain "This USB port is only for power, this USB port is for power and data. And don't try to try use HDMI through your USB hub because…

I have an external IDE/SATA hard disk dock that has a USB A port on it... and comes with a USB A to A cable. It's absolutely insane. Stupid manufacturers will do stupid things with any standard. Nobody should be making a laptop with one USB C port that's power only and one that's power and data.

Yeah, the worst part about USB C is that PD is optional. The electrical requirements of PD make it difficult to support on all ports though. If you have USB C ports on the left and right side you would have to route power from one side to the other. If your PCB traces have to support 5A over a long distance then things can get quite difficult.
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