USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#331

Post by curryst » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #278

frosted-flakes wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue.

> USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue. I’ve never seen a blue connector and ports in most laptops are just body coloured like in MacBooks.

It's rather ubiquitous, I'm surprised you haven't seen them. The plastic bits in the USB 3 ports in my motherboard, case, keyboard, _and_ the USB ports built into my monitor arms are all blue. Lower USBs are black. It's not universal, but it is very common.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#332

Post by tpxl » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #273

tpxl wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those cables were distinct upon physical inspection (missing pins), which USB C cables are not.

sure, if you're familiar with the pinout, you can tell whether the data or power lines are completely missing. there was still no guarantee that any arbitrary cable would work with whatever fast charge implementation you were using. you would likely get 0.5A trickle charging at least, but the device could also just refuse to charge at all. from my perspective, USB-IF has taken a bunch of random shit that manufacturer…

>sure, if you're familiar with the pinout

Literally half the pins are missing on charge-only cables.

>but I don't really understand why they are getting so much flak for it.

From me, because my partner bought an USB-C to 3.5mm jack converter that refused to work with "this device only supports official huawei converters". That, and two completely different cables with almost disjoint functionality look _the same_. If they mandated color coding or anything else to be able to physically determine what cable is what, I wouldn't complain.

That all said, the _charging_ story is decent enough, everything else is garbage.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#333

Post by VLM » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #155

izacus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you forget that there were at least 10 differente incompatible standards on how the device told the charger to pull more power.

What is different about that with USB-C?

Microusb usually didn't burn out or brick the device

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#334

Post by dathinab » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

reader_mode wrote: post #72

philplckthun wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fine to point out the Thunderbolt mess, or the PD vs non-PD devices (although non-PD is becoming exceedingly rare as far as I can tell at least for "larger" devices), but using the Nintendo Switch seems like a bad example in my opinion, since it explicitly does not follow all USB standards, especially in fact on charging.

Why ? You have the same plug but it's not actually compatible - this to me is a good example of confusion - I would be the first to assume you can charge it with whatever USB-C power cable available and not bother checking the docs.

It's like saying that because one concrete house collapsed because the architect didn't properly so it's job concrete house are bad in general.

Also most charger are fully compatible with the switch off I remember correctly the only way to fry your switch with a charger is by using a charger with high voltage/amper support with a cable which doesn't support any form of fast charging and even then it might not happen. But most chargers which support faster charging do have the cable fixed to the charger to prevent any user confusion.

As an effect of this most (all?) USB-C PD laptop chargers work with the switch. Only with chargers for phones and small tablets do you have to be careful but again most higher quality chargers from that area work just fine, too.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#335

Post by dathinab » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

zenexer wrote: post #85

reader_mode wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ? You have the same plug but it's not actually compatible - this to me is a good example of confusion - I would be the first to assume you can charge it with whatever USB-C power cable available and not bother checking the docs.

It seems like a deliberate effort on Nintendo's part to cause chaos. They could've done the same thing with any other standard, including micro USB. They made it just different enough that it's dangerous to use third-party peripherals.

No it looks honestly like a mistake and then not caring for standard compatibility.

Else we wouldn't be in a situation where most (all?) Laptop USB-C PD chargers work without problems with the switch.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#336

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

I wish I could just have one port. When at home, the port would go to a hub, and the hub connects a few monitors, a keyboard, a mouse, and power. Out and about, the hub would go to power.

Sadly, on my expensive as hell, powerful work supplied macbook pro, I need to plug three different USB-C dongles in to get multiple monitors, and I have to plug the USB keyboard and USB mouse into separate dongles, and power into a third. Why? I don't know. It's just the only way it works.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#337

Post by ogre_codes » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

Most of the rest of the issue is buying cheap adaptors and cheap cables. Get a name brand cable and verify what they are capable of. If you buy a $3 "MOKiN" brand USB-C cable and it won't charge your device, you've basically self-owned. Likewise any number of random cables on Amazon.

Lots of decent brands out there who make cables that do what they say they will do: Belkin, Monoprice, Anker, etc.

Another tip I got which is worth it's weight in cable in this case: If you need both USB-C and Thunderbolt cables, get different colors of cable and be consistent about it. I know a guy who buys all his cables in specific colors (even when the adaptor is different) so he can reach into his gear bag and get the right thing every time.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#338

Post by mcv » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #305

mikepurvis wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, though. In all likelihood it would end up thrown back on the consumer— "Did you use a licensed/approved/certified charger? Sounds like you need to take this up with whoever made the charger that fried our product." It might help resolve certain really common cases like compatibility between the chargers and devices of the mainstream entities. I guess I'd argue that that should be happening on its own, but…

The chargers that use standard plugs should also be made to support the standard or they should be held legally responsible. In this particular case I think even well-known name brand chargers which follow standards (Apple, Anker) are breaking the Nintendo, and that's unacceptable.

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is. You have no idea what's what anymore by looking at it. Everything seems to fit together, but if you do it, you damage your devices.

It would have been better if they'd launched another dozen different plug standards. In situations when there's only one thing you should be connecting to your device, that's the way to go. Universal sockets only make sense if they're actually universal.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#339

Post by dathinab » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

LexGray wrote: post #316

JohnTHaller wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side Note: Make sure you buy your Apple chargers from Apple. If you bought it from Amazon or similar, there's a good chance it's fake.

Additional side note: non-Apple chargers are often scary inside. They rarely contain the safeties of Apple chargers. That is outside this whole hackers setting chargers on fire issue.

Additional sitenote: And even if they are not a scary mess some Apple laptops are prone to dath by third-party charger.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#340

Post by chungus_khan » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #311

dcchambers wrote: post #82

USB-C is mostly a mess if you try to get away using the cheapest adapters/cables you can find, that often times won't follow the spec. Most of the issues vanish if you use high-end cables/adapters from reputable manufacturers. This is a departure from the world of Micro USB where most cheap cables worked just as good as "high end" cables. There are caveats. For example, my Nintendo Switch, a major electronics device…

And how exactly does one know they have received a "high end" cable or charger? Because it cost enough? Because a website claimed it was "Offishial Ankker CABLE"? I'm with you; as an educated techie I'm confident I can find a setup that works for my devices, but I'm far from the common denominator here. Frankly I'm a little concerned when HN thinks, "Nah this isn't a problem, USB-C is working just fine for me. None o…

It's also absurd to respond to a real-world problem like this by saying "well actually if everyone knew what they were doing and behaved perfectly, this wouldn't be an issue". Of course that's the case, but that sort of utopianism is unhelpful in the real world, away from the informed masses of HN.