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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#551

Post by bzbarsky »

nexuist wrote: post #170
sevenf0ur wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had someone who worked at my company that was convicted for second degree manslaughter for bludgeoning someone to death with a hammer. He was always chill around me but I think companies should have the right to decide whether or not they want to hire people with a record like that.

How do you get manslaughter for that? You can't unintentionally bludgeon someone to death, can you? I will however say that there is opportunity for multiple interpretations with the little information provided; for example I think bludgeoning someone to death is perfectly acceptable if that person is trying to harm you or your family and a hammer is the nearest available weapon. Your coworker could have been in a si…

Manslaughter can absolutely be intentional; hence "voluntary manslaughter". It generally needs to be unpremeditated and without active malicious intent, but can be self-defence, "in the heat of passion", etc that cause what would otherwise be a murder charge to be reduced to manslaughter.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#552

Post by bluGill »

rmah wrote: post #269
bluGill wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There shouldn't be one. Everything bad about a racist tweet is bad when race isn't an issue. Society has switched what it is racist about many times in the past. Just 100 years ago (WWI was just over) it was worse to be German than black in the US. Someone told me that in the 1870s the KKK had many black members - the group was against Catholics not blacks, but they changed (I do not know if this is true, but even if…

That assertion about the KKK is, in fact, a myth. The KKK was founded in 1865, just after the US Civil War, and had as a bedrock principal the re-establishment of white supremacy. It's initial actions were to frustrate Reconstruction-era policies through violent action. Today, they'd be labeled a terrorist organization. Their aims were inherently racist, political and their tactics violent. Through a variety of means…

That is why I was clear that it wasn't a source I would trust.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#553

Post by downandout »

Meph504 wrote: post #386
downandout wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many people get 90, 60, 30 days or even probation for felonies as part of a plea agreement. Felony simply means that the maximum sentence is over 1 year. There is even a term for it..”felony probation”.

That is a really gross oversimplification of the term, a felony is a serious crime that can result in long term punishment or capital punishment and no less than one year (minimum not maximum) sentence (which can be less due to plea agreements, and time served before conviction) the distinction between felony and misdemeanor is the servity of the crimes classification not just the length of sentence. There is also a…

Actually, that is not a gross oversimplification. According to [1], whether a crime has maximum sentence of over 1 year is precisely how the US government determines what crimes are and are not felonies:

In the United States, where the felony/misdemeanor distinction is still widely applied, the federal government defines a felony as a crime punishable by death or imprisonment in excess of one year. If punishable by exactly one year or less, it is classified as a misdemeanor. The classification is based upon a crime's potential sentence, so a crime remains classified as a felony even if a defendant receives a sentence of less than a year of incarceration.

Also, no, I wasn’t referring to post-release supervision (which is usually referred to as parole or supervised release). Many hundreds of thousands of people every year receive a sentence of probation for felonies, primarily because countless “tough on crime” measures have increased maximum sentences for minor crimes, which automatically turned them into felonies where they used to be misdemeanors.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#554

Post by Tostino »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #506
saxonww wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every job application I have ever filled out asked whether I had been convicted of a felony. All the way back to my first job bagging groceries.

that literally never happened to me

Every single job, since my first dish-washing, has asked this question. The forms HR gives me now when I need to hire ask it too even if I disagree with asking it.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#555

Post by selimthegrim »

ry454 wrote: post #523
Meph504 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live that it is a felony to have a hunting knife in your car, and also where felony's have degrees?

Not only felonies have degrees here, they have classes and graduate eventually.

Even predicate ones? (I kid)

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#556

Post by econcon »

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472
anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

My suggestion:

1. Go to a big city where software folks are paid a lot

2. Apply for roles at startups or small companies who find it hard to compete with big companies paying a lot.

3. Profit

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#557

Post by theoneanon42 »

Reading these stories always stirs emotions. It's great that she landed a job. At the same time, it's hard to not think about how many other folks won't have the same happy chance of circumstances.

When I was 19 I went to federal prison for computer-related crimes. After I was released I tried getting "normal" jobs - Dominos, McDonalds, etc, but had less than stellar luck on that front. I started my own thing doing affiliate marketing and made enough to pay bill. Thankfully this was before I had a family.

Now I've been in the consulting and contracting space for years, worked with/at Fortune 10 companies, HIPAA and PCI regulated shops too. Recently, after a failed start up, I needed to get a "real" job. After the first two offers were pulled back, I changed my interview tactics.

Now, on the very first phone call with a human, I bring up my nearly 20 year old conviction. It's never come up on a background check due to how the vast majority of commercial background checks work. My name, however, is quite unique and news articles are still some top ranking sites about me.

One of my pie-in-the-sky goals is to try my hand at another start up, and in the process build out a program to train other felons with how to program. With all the folks I've been around throughout my career, some of the smartest of them were people I met in prison. There's so much wasted talent there.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#558

Post by theoneanon42 »

batt4good wrote: post #104

This is an interesting story, but if I had the choice to hire a felon (yes, once you commit a felony, even after serving time you are still a felon) or a scrappy coding bootcamp grad I'd take the bootcamp grad every time. Especially if I'm a founder with significant skin in the game, why would I risk my money, time and hard work on someone with a recorded record of making poor choices when there are hoards of others…

It's interesting seeing people get upset at this. I'm a felon - and this makes sense to me. It's your business, you should choose who works for you.

While it's illegal in the US for most places to outright not hire you solely because you're a felon, you'll have a hard time actually proving that.

If you go by the numbers, felons are more likely to break the law again than folks that aren't felons. You can argue up and down the _why_ around this, but that's the numbers.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's your right to hold your opinion and run your business in a way you see fit.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#559

Post by lopmotr »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #163
minitoar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think a good definition of “racist tweet” would be?

It's a tweet that explicitly promotes superiority or inferiority of one race relative to other races.

What if one race really is superior or inferior to another? For example "Tibetans are better at surviving at high altitudes than Han Chinese" Fact but racist according to that definition. Harsh consequences for scientists talking about their work?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#560

Post by billh »

saxonww wrote: post #500
yreg wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?

Every job application I have ever filled out asked whether I had been convicted of a felony. All the way back to my first job bagging groceries.

My last job application asked not only about felony conviction but also wanted to know if I've ever been arrested before.
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