Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 670 posts

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#531

Post by lostcolony »

murderfs wrote: post #449
larrywright wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attitude towards someone convicted of a criminal act isn’t uncommon, but it’s short-sighted. If the judicial system determines that the appropriate punishment for a crime is X years, then at the end of that time they should be given a chance at a fresh start. There are limits, of course, perhaps you don’t want to give them a security clearance, or a job that requires carrying a gun. Someone convicted of molestin…

> If the judicial system determines that the appropriate punishment for a crime is X years, then at the end of that time they should be given a chance at a fresh start. This is a poor argument: the judicial system has also determined, by lack of prohibition, that it's appropriate for employers to discriminate based on criminal record.

'Determined that it's appropriate' is rather strong language for something the system simply does not universally address. In fact, EEOC guidance, and recent court cases, seem to indicate that were it brought in front of the courts, they would likely rule in favor of the plaintiffs (obviously with recent court packing by GOP that's more in question than it was a few years ago though). It's just that oftentimes, ex-criminals searching for jobs don't have the money to take such cases to court.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#532

Post by larrywright »

murderfs wrote: post #514
larrywright wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed.

But that wasn't your argument!

> at the end of that time they should be given a chance at a fresh start

It really was.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#533

Post by rubicon33 »

anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

What programming language / domain did you learn?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#534

Post by Aeolun »

oopsiforgot7 wrote: post #483
BlueGh0st wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

> security That might be your problem. From what I heard it's a more sensitive role so they will take a stricter stance.

So? They may take a stricter stance, but I just fail to see how anything but extortion or treason really applies to working in security.

Hell, even if you committed a murder that doesn’t make you any more likely to steal company secrets.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#535

Post by waterhouse »

pbronez wrote: post #519
throwaway_45 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you white? I think Race has a big part of if you make it or not especially if you have committed a felony.

Interestingly, some well-intentioned “ban the box” policies backfired in terms of racial justice in hiring. These campaigns managed to outlaw the “are you a felon?” question on job applications in an attempt to make it easier for felons, many of whom belong to racial minorities, to get a fair shot at employment based on their skills. Unfortunately this caused employers to hire even fewer members of those minority gro…

If you forbid direct measurement of something, then people will use proxies, which is generally harmful to everyone involved.

If you want to minimize the extent to which people use demographics as a proxy for qualities they want to select for, then make it as cheap and reliable as possible to measure those qualities directly.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#536

Post by antoncohen »

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472
anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

Move to San Francisco. Employers aren't allowed ask about arrests or conviction on a job application. They aren't allowed to do background checks until they have offered you the job. They can only consider convictions directly related to the job. And if they reject you because of a background check, they must notify you, allow you to respond, and reconsider based on the response.

https://sfgov.org/olse/fair-chance-ordinance-fco

https://sfgov.org/olse/sites/default/files/FCO%20poster2020....

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#537

Post by Aeolun »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #526
BlueGh0st wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been able to do just a handful of freelance-gigs outside of my desired field but between bad experiences (payment was 6 months late once) and life kicking me while I'm down, I've just been seeking some stability.

>(payment was 6 months late once) This never gets enough visibility among freelancers / contractors / consultants - it can be really hard to get paid and for smaller amounts of money it often would take too much in legal fees to actually get paid.

Don’t work until payment is made? Offer a discount for early payment? Charge interest on late payments?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#538

Post by g5becks »

I went through the same situation, except I chose to work for myself instead of going into the job market. I shared a small part of my story for the first time on reddit [1] , which led to me being interviewed on the stackoverflow podcast [2] . All I can say is that from my experience, knowing how to code is a skill that has proven to be indispensable. I don’t know what I would be doing if it wasn’t for the fact that I can create things I can sell, with no funding, and nothing but ideas. In the past, my options were few, now they seem limitless.

Much respect for your friend, and congrats on her success! It’s not easy at all to actually self rehabilitate behind those walls.

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ht5krp/prisons...

https://the-stack-overflow-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes/w...

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#539

Post by vector_spaces »

arolihas wrote: post #420
vector_spaces wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to disparage this sentiment, but > Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness. - Gandhi (Kaffir was a slur used against black South Afri…

What was the purpose of sharing that quote then, if not to disparage the sentiment? To disparage whoever said it? Do you know when that quote was made, as Gandhi’s views (which were a product of his time and upbringing) evolved over the span of his life?

My point was that figures like Gandhi are idolized in the West through tired, decontextualized quotes like the one above, and the result is that they are (popularly) effectively above reproach. The result is an ahistorical understanding of a complicated person who held a number of views (at various points in his life, although there's little evidence to support that his thinking on this particular topic evolved much over the course of his life) and engaged in behaviours that few would disagree were completely reprehensible.

Speaking of ahistoricism, I don't understand your point that his views were "a product of his time". Firstly, not everyone in his time held them, and more importantly, applying that logic one could dismiss pretty much any atrocity as "a product of its time".

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#540

Post by antoncohen »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #506
saxonww wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every job application I have ever filled out asked whether I had been convicted of a felony. All the way back to my first job bagging groceries.

that literally never happened to me

Have you ever filled out an actual job application in the US? I'm pretty sure every job application I've filled out until San Francisco passed the Fair Chance Ordinance has asked if I have any convictions, and some have asked about arrests (which is crazy). And every job I can remember has done a background check.
Post reply on HN