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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#571

Post by int_19h »

broknbottle wrote: post #461
bluGill wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I purchase a device with a Universal charger port and a universal charger. If the device doesn't work with any other universal charger that is their problem. Likewise if I use their charger on something else and it breaks my other device that is their problem. The purpose of universal is everything works with everything. whoever breaks that is at fault and should pay the price. If Nintendo has used some other por…

Nintendo clearly states on Switch specs page that the Switch dock has a "AC adapter port". Just because it uses a connector that physically looks like USB Type-C does not mean it's actually a USB type C port.

It should be considered the same, because for all practical purposes, that's how the end users treat it - and it's not unreasonable on their behalf. If Nintendo wants a proprietary charger, they're welcome to use a proprietary port. But standards exist for a reason, and diluting them like that should be heavily regulated.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#572

Post by ender341341 »

danhor wrote: post #349
floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

The Brick-Gate issue, where many switches where bricked, was not an issue with generic chargers, but specifically 3rd party docks. And, as it turns out, the issue in that case wasn't on the switch side, but the manufacturers of the 3rd party docks, that used 9v on a normal signal pin (cc) [very much not spec compliant], which destroyed the pd chip inside the switch: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c…

This is really good to hear. I hadn't heard this follow up and besides joysticks (going back to the n64 era) Nintendo's traditionally had an insanely good hardware QA so I was surprised to hear about the issues initially.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#573

Post by CamperBob2 »

_v7gu wrote: post #208
JAlexoid wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that Switch cannot use Apple's charger with the dock. It literally complains about the cable being wrong.

The dock is a special case and requires some specific voltage/amperage support. But the switch itself abides by EU regulations.

Yeah, there's always a "special case" with USB-C, isn't there.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#574

Post by II2II »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #460
abruzzi wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solution: Mandate visually encoded supported standards on the USB cable in colored ring form, a la resistors. I agree in principal, but please don't do it with colored rings. Many of us have much more limited color perception due to colorblindness. I recently purchased some 8 cable 1/4" TRS snakes, and the only thing identifying which connector on one side of the snake was connected to a connector on the other side…

>please don't do it with colored rings. You say that but, and I realise it's pedantic, your comment only supports not limiting the identification to only coloured rings. Coloured rings would be a very good solution for a large percentage of the users. Glyphs will also fail with the blind, maybe with dyslexics. Or of interest, would you pay more for glyph coded versions? Just pondering if The Market would ever create…

About 10% of the male population has some form of colour blindness, which is a fairly large percentage. Letting the market make decisions only leads to discriminatory practices. Worse, these practices can have an impact upon a person's life. For example: it can, and already does, affect employability.

Also keep in mind features that address a disability can be of benefit to everyone. For example: being able to identify something by shape can be useful to the colour blind, blind, and sighted people.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#575

Post by megous »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #525
megous wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these values are determined only after hooking the devices together. The devices may support 5V/5A (25W) but cable may only support 3A (but it can do 36W at 12V/3A), after connecting the devices you'll get max 15W. :)

A device using 5V/5A is nonstandard to an ugly extent but that's fine, because the actual spec of the cable is amps and there are only two options: 3 amps and 5 amps. And we could fold the thunderbolt/bandwidth/video into one single speed rating without much trouble, if the desire was there...

What exactly is non-standard about it?

https://megous.com/dl/tmp/a0538dc39724eb2e.png

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#576

Post by acdha »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #460
abruzzi wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solution: Mandate visually encoded supported standards on the USB cable in colored ring form, a la resistors. I agree in principal, but please don't do it with colored rings. Many of us have much more limited color perception due to colorblindness. I recently purchased some 8 cable 1/4" TRS snakes, and the only thing identifying which connector on one side of the snake was connected to a connector on the other side…

>please don't do it with colored rings. You say that but, and I realise it's pedantic, your comment only supports not limiting the identification to only coloured rings. Coloured rings would be a very good solution for a large percentage of the users. Glyphs will also fail with the blind, maybe with dyslexics. Or of interest, would you pay more for glyph coded versions? Just pondering if The Market would ever create…

Consider how much life in the US improved for disabled after the ADA passed. That suggests that market forces weren’t strong enough.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#577

Post by ses1984 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #500
ses1984 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in a world where if you have a high speed cable designed for 4k60p HDR, in a pinch you can also use it to charge your phone. In a pinch you can also use it for a data transfer. In a pinch, you can also use your charging cable to transmit 720p video. The cables should be marked, if they are not marked with their capability then buy them from another vendor that does mark them. It's no different than ethernet cab…

Ethernet cables of any repute have the category printed onto the insulation.

Usb cables should do the same, most don't I guess.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#578

Post by ses1984 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #502
ses1984 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both 100w charging and high speed data transfer are problems that get harder over long distances, and trying to do them both in the same cable requires many non-trivial feats of engineering, quality materials, and manufacturing. No one ever said USBC was going to bring these features to cheap $5 cables you buy in the checkout at the corner bodega.

But the EXISTENCE of those $5 cables with extremely limited capability muddle the entire market. I'd call them counterfeits, except for some reason they're spec compliant!

I can't say I agree.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#579

Post by zajio1am »

kstrauser wrote: post #346
coryfklein wrote: post #322

Apple MacBooks with USB-C are standard issue for everyone at our company. You know what else is standard issue? A f$#%ing dongle so you can actually plug anything into said laptop. I can't help but think that all these folks saying, "oh it's so nice, everything I've ever wanted to plug in runs on USB-C" represent a tiny minority of the real world. The only two cables I own that can plug into my laptop connect it to:…

What's wrong with that, though? Of course there's going to be a while where we have to deal with both standards, but that's true of everything. I have a USB A-to-C hub sitting on my desk. It's plugged into my Mac Mini's USB-C port, and all the legacy stuff plugs into it. That's not such a terrible situation.

> What's wrong with that, though? Of course there's going to be a while where we have to deal with both standards, but that's true of everything.

Reasonable way how to handle transition period is to have computers with both USB-A and USB-C sockets, not just USB-C sockets and dongles.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#580

Post by ksec »

josho wrote: post #60

The solution, I believe, is rather simple. The standards group should require any cable/device with USB 3 support to include a label on its packaging detailing which capabilities of USB 3 are supported. Think of the nutrition labels on food packaging, instead showing what the device does and does not support, something like this: Power Delivery——–30w max Thunderbolt————No support Bandwidth————–800Mbps max Video——————…

Once you start doing that. How is it any different to using HDMI for Video, Power Cable, and USB for other things?

Using a specific Cable for their own purpose "is" intuitive for vast majority users. Choosing the right USB-C cable is not.

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