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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#261

Post by ticmasta »

microcolonel wrote: post #220
koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

I've found a mix with background checks in the U.S; a lot of rental landlords want background checks for the obvious reasons (e.g. housing a convicted rapist with a young woman), employers can go either way, and in my experience it has tended to be reasonable (but I've always worked as a professional, and for people I know through colleagues or acquaintances). A background check is, in my experience, unusal for rente…

The demands for background checks tends to be inversely proportional to the ability of the employee/applicant to do criminal or civil harm. You'll need a clean criminal record to work a random retail job but could have numerous convictions and be a software developer. A crummy rental will require it but fancy executive rental will not.

I know some of this has historical/data underpinnings on experience, but fear most of it is based on biased expectations.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#262

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

schoolornot wrote: post #22
caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

I wonder what kind of community reaction there will be if Hans Reiser submits kernel patches after getting released/paroled.

I, for one, would not mind him doing this while incarcerated, too. Who would be harmed if he would get a pc and internet access in prison?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#263

Post by [deleted] »

codingdave wrote: post #44
thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

Are you comfortable being judged on the worst thing you've ever done in your life? Sure, a violent crime is worse than some bone-headed mistake made at a college party, or whatever your worst moment is. But how much have you grown up since then? Would you do it again? Or are you older and wiser? Well, they are probably older and wiser, too.

[deleted]

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#264

Post by vorpalhex »

koiz wrote: post #60
Chernobog wrote: post #53

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

In Texas, if you pull a background check on someone you're required to provide a copy to them which I always felt was a good minimal standard - at least then you know that someone pulled the check and what they found.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#265

Post by tnorthcutt »

dahfizz wrote: post #247
tnorthcutt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? Do you feel that after serving a sentence for such a crime, the perpetrator should not have a chance at a "normal" life? Should they live the rest of their days continually punished by society for what they did? If so, should we instead increase the length of the sentence for such a crime? To how long?

There is a big difference between "This person should be imprisoned and completely seperated from society" and "I should have the right to not work with violent people". I have no problem with a convicted murderer being released from prison, but I'm not going to invite them over for dinner.

Then... don't.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#266

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

Chernobog wrote: post #53

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

A part of that may be a legal requirement for the employers to provide a "safe working environment".

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#267

Post by tnorthcutt »

sevenf0ur wrote: post #142
tnorthcutt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? Do you feel that after serving a sentence for such a crime, the perpetrator should not have a chance at a "normal" life? Should they live the rest of their days continually punished by society for what they did? If so, should we instead increase the length of the sentence for such a crime? To how long?

We had someone who worked at my company that was convicted for second degree manslaughter for bludgeoning someone to death with a hammer. He was always chill around me but I think companies should have the right to decide whether or not they want to hire people with a record like that.

companies should have the right to decide whether or not they want to hire people with a record like that

They do.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#268

Post by pkaye »

staticassertion wrote: post #20
nickff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are losing their jobs because of offhand tweets completely unrelated to their occupation; how can we expect that a blemish as big as a criminal record will be overlooked?

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

So you are saying it should be the employers choice whether to hire the racist or criminal?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#269

Post by rmah »

bluGill wrote: post #212
minitoar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think a good definition of “racist tweet” would be?

There shouldn't be one. Everything bad about a racist tweet is bad when race isn't an issue. Society has switched what it is racist about many times in the past. Just 100 years ago (WWI was just over) it was worse to be German than black in the US. Someone told me that in the 1870s the KKK had many black members - the group was against Catholics not blacks, but they changed (I do not know if this is true, but even if…

That assertion about the KKK is, in fact, a myth. The KKK was founded in 1865, just after the US Civil War, and had as a bedrock principal the re-establishment of white supremacy. It's initial actions were to frustrate Reconstruction-era policies through violent action. Today, they'd be labeled a terrorist organization. Their aims were inherently racist, political and their tactics violent. Through a variety of means, they more or less achieved their goals such that by 1876, the entire south was once again under Democratic control.

It wasn't until the revival of the "second wave" of the KKK during 1910's and 1920's that they even started taking on anti-catholic stances. It was during this era that the burning cross, anti-communist, anti-catholic and anti-jewish stances came into being.

Finally, I have no idea where you got the idea that the KKK had "many black members". As far as I'm aware, no credible evidence for that has ever been put forward.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#270

Post by Const-me »

Justen wrote: post #214
seer wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Bulgaria (EU) they often ask you to provide proof that you are currently not being prosecuted, but apart from that, the only time I’ve been asked to get a criminal record was when applying for a citizenship. And having one is not something that would stop the process, but can be grounds for denial. Programmers can get a free pass for a lot of things here though.

Just curious how you would typically prove you aren't being prosecuted.

Not from BG, but my guess is you go to a police station where you live, show your ID and ask them to print and sign a paper that says so.
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