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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#131

The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productive member of society. The Last Mile seems like a great program to share our tech skills and knowledge with people who really need a leg up. I will be signing up as a volunteer today.

I would be very interested in understanding how much of that recidivism rate is attributable to "ex-felon discrimination" or whatever we might call it as opposed to other variables.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#132

Using the logic of some people in this thread, the day after a convinced child molester gets out of prison, he should be able to start working at a day care. Why not? He served his time- you don't want to punish him indefinitely, right? Also a convicted fraudster can start working again immediately in a bank, or as a financial advisor for your parents- after all, he served his time, right? And a convicted Mafioso or…

You're not making a good argument for your position. In this context, being a pedophile (distinct from the act of abusing children) is closer to being a racist (distinct from the act of abusing people of a different race) than to being a bank robber.

Also, why construction and retail? A remote-work programming position seems less dangerous for the public, even following your reasoning.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#133

Using the logic of some people in this thread, the day after a convinced child molester gets out of prison, he should be able to start working at a day care. Why not? He served his time- you don't want to punish him indefinitely, right? Also a convicted fraudster can start working again immediately in a bank, or as a financial advisor for your parents- after all, he served his time, right? And a convicted Mafioso or…

Really weird example. So a daycare should hire a pedophile if he wasn't ever convicted?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#134

Using the logic of some people in this thread, the day after a convinced child molester gets out of prison, he should be able to start working at a day care. Why not? He served his time- you don't want to punish him indefinitely, right? Also a convicted fraudster can start working again immediately in a bank, or as a financial advisor for your parents- after all, he served his time, right? And a convicted Mafioso or…

Let the child molester work in a bank and the fraudster work in a daycare.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a huge amount of prison time in the US handed out for selling banned substances to other consenting adults?

In total, about a half million people are in jail or prison for having, using, or selling drugs. Drug crimes account for about half of Federal prisoners. But percentage-wise, when you add up federal, state, and local prisons and jails, drugs are not as large a percentage as you'd think. Another half million people in prisons or jails haven't been convicted of any crime at all, either because they can't afford bail or…

This is people in prison, not people sent to prison. Given that violent crimes have longer sentences, wouldn't that skew the existing count in prison considerably towards violent offenders, even if many more people are sent to prison for other offenses?

Further, because there would be shorter sentences, you're far more likely to encounter a candidate with a lesser sentence.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a problem though: - The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" - The definition of "racist tweet" on the other hand is as fuzzy as it can be. Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like" If we think that racist tweets shou…

What do you think a good definition of “racist tweet” would be?

I doubt there is one.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

What percentage of the population do you estimate is made up of these racists?

I don't know? I don't understand what you're getting at.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it becomes either a law enforcement issue- does our system properly rehabilitate offenders? or a psychological issue- is someone who commits a violent crime inevitably going to repeat it?- or maybe a moral philosophy question- are people inherently evil and dangerous? Because you’re asking a safety/comfort question, but it’s dependent on the answers to the above.

I think those questions are distracting to my very simple point: I don't want to work with a person who has murdered someone without a damn good reason (self-defense). I truly can't believe that HN thinks this is some offensive opinion.

They're not distracting, because those underlying questions shape your reaction.

Murder is considered one of the worst offenses in any society. But this person was already punished by society, and seen fit by the law to return to it. So what could explain your continue (and very understandable) discomfort? Is it because you believe that the penal system did not properly make this person safe to return to society? Is it because that once someone has committed such a terrible crime that they are inevitably going to be able to do so again, because they have the psychological profile to do it? Such a person is more likely to slip into violence? Finally, does it mean that such a person is forever marked as fundamentally dangerous and unworthy of reintegration?

After the visceral recoil that is an instinct that preserves safety, you have to examine why you are so opposed to working with someone who has committed such a crime. Because we claim to live in a free society that gives people the liberty to pull themselves up from the bootstraps no matter their circumstances, yet discriminates against those who have done the time. Because we claim this society is built upon Christian and post-Christian Enlightenment principles, yet we reject the power of redemption and modern methods of recovery. It's fine to have such an opinion, but you have to justify it, because it's an example of how our society operates.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#139
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

So, Thought Crime weighs heavier than statutory crimes? Who decides the guilt or innocence of the thoughts?

The one hiring gets to decide who works there.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#140

Using the logic of some people in this thread, the day after a convinced child molester gets out of prison, he should be able to start working at a day care. Why not? He served his time- you don't want to punish him indefinitely, right? Also a convicted fraudster can start working again immediately in a bank, or as a financial advisor for your parents- after all, he served his time, right? And a convicted Mafioso or…

Really weird example. So a daycare should hire a pedophile if he wasn't ever convicted?

Your comment has its share of weirdness as well.
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