USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#241

Post by rozab » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

quicklime wrote: post #207

dcchambers wrote: post #82

USB-C is mostly a mess if you try to get away using the cheapest adapters/cables you can find, that often times won't follow the spec. Most of the issues vanish if you use high-end cables/adapters from reputable manufacturers. This is a departure from the world of Micro USB where most cheap cables worked just as good as "high end" cables. There are caveats. For example, my Nintendo Switch, a major electronics device…

Another caveat is that many monitors have USB-C ports, but many (most?) cables do not support video. Even my cable from a luxury brand in Cupertino doesn't support it, so it's not just about sticking to famous brands. I'm not sure how a regular consumer is supposed to understand this. In the past, it wasn't possible to plug a VGA cable into a PS/2 port. Now, you just have to know these hidden properties of each cable…

A simple pictorial system for showing these capabilities should have been part of the spec, like how USB-A connectors must have the USB logo on the top. Most manufacturers complied with that.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#242

Post by arghwhat » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

vr46 wrote: post #23

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

Aha - you may find that this is not true at all.

Not only has the Switch always charged safely, later revisions are also more compliant. The issue has always been with the charger and dock. Never PD compliant chargers straight in the switch.

The thunderbolt 3 + usb C thing is true though. My Thunderbolt 3 dock won't charge a non-TB3 device. I'd consider that a minor issue though, especially as USB4 fixes it entirely.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#243

Post by smarx007 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #170

cameronh90 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I charge my Switch with various USB PD chargers (mostly Anker but also Apple, Google and others) and haven't had a problem so far. I was trying to find some information about what would cause PD-compliant chargers to fry the Switch. It appears that while the switch is PD-compliant itself, they used a slightly non-standard connector that reduces tolerances and could, in some situations (most likely worn cables) cause…

I don't actually own a Switch, but my partner and I both charge our laptops (mine a Dell XPS, hers a MacBook) from the same after-market USB-C charging bricks. I don't love that it's like this, but basically the product page just lists every known-to-work device, including Nintendo Switch: https://www.amazon.ca/Charger-Adapter-Replacement-Thinkpad-M... Now, I'm a cheapskate, so most of my electronics are older device…

I am also a cheapskate but afraid of using noname power supplies and have been very happy with the HP charger that works on all my devices including a Macbook: https://www.amazon.ca/HP-3PN48UT-USB-C-Slim-Elitebook/dp/B07... It even includes a handy USB-A port for non-USB-C cables.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#244

Post by ben-schaaf » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

chorsestudios wrote: post #135

falcolas wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either side, so that's basically life changing on its own. Yeah, be careful with that - for some MacBook Pro models charging from the left side will cause overheating and CPU throttling issues.

Does this still occur with the latest version of MacOS?

From my understanding it's a motherboard layout/cooling issue. Not going to fix that with software.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#245

Post by sammycdubs » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

Three things I love about USB-C

1. Charging is like 90% of what I use cables for, and I can just have the same cable for everything

2. USB-C displays are fantastic, one cable to my MacBook that handles charging, display output, USB-A ports etc

3. The only time I ever use USB-C ports for anything other than charging is from my MacBook, and so far every adapter/display etc has just worked

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#246

Post by rattray » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

dcchambers wrote: post #82

USB-C is mostly a mess if you try to get away using the cheapest adapters/cables you can find, that often times won't follow the spec. Most of the issues vanish if you use high-end cables/adapters from reputable manufacturers. This is a departure from the world of Micro USB where most cheap cables worked just as good as "high end" cables. There are caveats. For example, my Nintendo Switch, a major electronics device…

Right, that's what I'd call a mess. The purpose of a standard should be that if a product conforms to it, the consumer can trust that the product will work.

That isn't the case with USB-C.

I've had some "USB-C" cables that can charge but not transmit video, some that can transmit video but not charge, and some that can do both. It shouldn't be possible to sell a cable that can't do both and call it USB-C.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#247

Post by derefr » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

reader_mode wrote: post #176

derefr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USB Consortium’s licensing strategy is to restrict what people can label with the USB logo, by holding trademark over that logo. You then have to work out an arrangement with them, in order for your hardware to proclaim itself as USB-compatible by using the logo. This is their “in” to ensure you’re doing USB correctly. The Nintendo charging port is not labelled with a USB logo. It’s fundamentally not a USB-C port…

Don't they have IP rights over port design ?

If they do, they don’t enforce them.

Which makes sense to me, because “licensing the port design” would involve trying to extract money from the wrong people — it would target the bulk parts manufacturers producing the USB-C connectors. Those parts manufacturers would have to pay per connector-part produced in such a scheme. Those businesses 1. operate on razor-thin margins such that there’s no margin to extract there, and 2. don’t have nearly the tight logistics pipelines that consumer-electronics companies do, so there’d likely be huge bins of USB-C connectors laying around awaiting an order, where they’d have to eat the licensing fees in advance of receiving payment for the parts (which puts a big hole in their cashflow.)

Much better to go after the high-margin device manufacturers and OEM integrators. But you can’t really pursue them for infringing on the part; they didn’t make it, they just bought it. They’d tell you to go chase the people they bought it from. (And, as said above, you don’t want to do that.) Instead, you have to pursue them for something they’re doing. Such as adding the USB logo to their product.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#248

Post by dewey » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #218

tristor wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. If you want anything that actually works and is reliable, you pretty much cannot buy it on Amazon, you need to buy it directly from the company that makes it. I have a Henge Dock for my older 13" MBP and it's worked perfectly for years over USB-C, and on my newer Touchbar 13" I havea a 2-port USB-C microdock from HyperDrive. I use Anker PD/IQ3 chargers and cables, and I have no issues whatsoever.…

> If you want anything that actually works and is reliable, you pretty much cannot buy it on Amazon, you need to buy it directly from the company that makes it. I remember several years ago purchasing the $70 digital adapter from Apple. It's the one with 3 ports and merges into one. I forget which version it was. It was horrible. The HDMI port wouldn't work. I had purchased two. They were absolute trash. That's $140.…

> I replaced them with two Amazon versions for half the cost. They worked.

The point is that you don't know what you get on Amazon these days. It could be that you get a working version and I get a counterfeit version even though we both buy the same article on Amazon as they are just all in the same storage box.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#249

Post by dekerta » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

josho wrote: post #60

The solution, I believe, is rather simple. The standards group should require any cable/device with USB 3 support to include a label on its packaging detailing which capabilities of USB 3 are supported. Think of the nutrition labels on food packaging, instead showing what the device does and does not support, something like this: Power Delivery——–30w max Thunderbolt————No support Bandwidth————–800Mbps max Video——————…

The problem with that is most people don't keep USB cables in their original packaging. How am I going to know the specs of a particular cable when it's sitting loosely in a drawer with 20 other USB cables?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#250

Post by INTPenis » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Yeah I have to say I share that sentiment.

Now when I travel I use my Lenovo charger to charge my Android phones and tablet.

Unfortunately work provides me with an iPhone so that's still one more charger. One more piece of plastic floating around the ocean in the future. God damnit apple...