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On Old Age

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Re: On Old Age

#81

Post by onecommentman »

Yetanfou wrote: post #66
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He or she did indeed do that. I find the constant ranting about taxation here very trying, I frequent many financial and more "right-wing" forums, but HN is the only place I commonly see the taxation is theft argument made seriously on a regular basis. I'd love to know why that is, but it appears to be one of life's great mysteries. My mother's advice on this still stays with me: never look at your gross pay, and you…

You might want to consider reading my reply before you start spouting nonsense about right-wing forums , it might answer your question about why I chose taxation as an example of something which is seen as normal in current society but might be seen in a totally different light in some imaginary future society. It might help you understand that your rant is misplaced since my comparison only works because taxation is…

Beware the man of one idea.

Re: On Old Age

#82

Post by spfzero »

onecommentman wrote: post #79
heresie-dabord wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical health is fragile, but mental health can be robust for all or most of a long life. I think of Bertrand Russell. I watched the US 2020 Election debate last night. At the risk of incensing lobbyists and dogmatic adherents of either side, let me say that it is humbling to see old people behave like fools. Infirmity and death will come, but sometimes our Integrity shines at the right moments to inspire others.

Some say that one of the first signs you are developing the wisdom that will make old age sweet is to be slow to judge.

Yes, so true. With that comes a detachment that insulates from so much angst, so you can focus on the things that benefit most from your attention.

Re: On Old Age

#83

Post by gratalis »

dint wrote: post #61
stakkur wrote: post #49

Cicero, like many other philosophers of antiquity, places ultimate value on the goal of 'a life well-lived'. In this essay, he basically says 'old age is fine, if you lived a good life beforehand', and hedges by saying death's no big deal. Which is, of course, rubbish. That's not really how life works: rewards rarely follow your efforts to live a good life. There are often no rewards at all; a life of diligent saving…

Can you recommend readings about the Buddhist take on this?

Mediums and messengers resonate differently for different folks at different times but I find these resources helpful:

https://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/1/ https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gil+fronsdal

https://fiveinvitations.com/about-frank-ostaseski/ https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=frank+ostaseski

Re: On Old Age

#84

Post by glouwbug »

lazypenguin wrote: post #26
jfengel wrote: post #7

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing. And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needi…

There was a post not long ago on here by a young man (32 iirc?) that had a terminal illness and was sharing his final thoughts. One idea stood out to me, he said that getting old is a privilege that not everyone has the opportunity to experience. It was a new perspective for me on aging, perhaps the sentiment can be meaningful to you as well.

The saying of two things in life being certain, death and taxes, implies death is tax free. Desires and aversions - like pay cheques and taxes - stoics yearned for freedom from both, and they appreciated end of life for freeing the soul from it's wantings and aversion for earthly desires and pain.

Re: On Old Age

#85

Post by [deleted] »

stakkur wrote: post #49

Cicero, like many other philosophers of antiquity, places ultimate value on the goal of 'a life well-lived'. In this essay, he basically says 'old age is fine, if you lived a good life beforehand', and hedges by saying death's no big deal. Which is, of course, rubbish. That's not really how life works: rewards rarely follow your efforts to live a good life. There are often no rewards at all; a life of diligent saving…

[deleted]

Re: On Old Age

#86

Post by glerk »

onecommentman wrote: post #80
glerk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Any philosophy trying to make “old age” into something positive is a cop-out. There is nothing positive about seeing your mind and body slowly decay.

I take it you (your brain) believe you are the sum of your body and your mind — here I’m presuming brain. Others over the centuries have disagreed. Many others. Billions of others. And some of those say you can personally validate that you are more than your body+brain while you are living. I’m not in the business of selling any particular approach to do that. But entering into a downward cycle of negativity about ag…

> But entering into a downward cycle of negativity about aging isn’t going to do you, and those few still around willing to put up with you, any favors as you get older

Irrelevant.

> If there is more to it than body+brain, and choosing to not confirm it to yourself leads you into negativity and misery as you age.

If.

> well doesn’t that just sounds like you’re dumber than a door nail?

Throwing insults right out of the gate just makes you sound like a cheap troll :) If you have an argument to make, just cut the innuendo and make your argument. How did you "personally validate that you are more than your body+brain"? I don't want to assume anything, maybe you have something original to say that doesn't involve meditation, psychedelic drugs and Deepak Chopra.

Re: On Old Age

#87

Post by ternaryoperator »

jfengel wrote: post #7

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing. And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needi…

> I don't expect acquired wisdom to suffice: I honestly don't think I've gotten any spectacular insights "reason and good judgement".

How very sad. When I crossed 50, I thought (and still do think) that the physical decline was disproportionately compensated for by the greater wisdom, the more-spontaneous kindness, and the clarity of self-knowledge. I would not trade that to go back 10 years; even less to go back 20 years.

I expect if you look at notes you might have taken a few decades ago, you'd see on the uncertainty on one hand, the excess certainty on the other and think to yourself, thank God I don't have to climb that mountain every day anymore! At least, I hope that will be your experience.

Re: On Old Age

#88

Post by kashyapc »

Jun8 wrote: post #23
kashyapc wrote: post #6

Cicero is one of the Roman gems that people tend to miss out on. He lived more than 2000 years ago, and written many works on Greek philosophy (including the works of Plato, Stoics, Epicureans, et al); and some of his own. He often claims that he doesn't take sides, but aims for what is most "probable". Although, in some cases he leans heavily towards Stoic ethics (despite his love for Plato's Academy). Besides the "…

On the fiction side, I’m currently reading and very much enjoying Imperium ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperium_(Harris_novel) ), which is a fictional biography of Cicero.

Haven't heard of it; thanks for the suggestion. I'm definitely curious, after learning a decent bit about the real Cicero.

Re: On Old Age

#89

Post by 082349872349872 »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #35
lawlessone wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you seriously just turn a point about slavery into a rant that you have to pay taxes? Lol

He or she did indeed do that. I find the constant ranting about taxation here very trying, I frequent many financial and more "right-wing" forums, but HN is the only place I commonly see the taxation is theft argument made seriously on a regular basis. I'd love to know why that is, but it appears to be one of life's great mysteries. My mother's advice on this still stays with me: never look at your gross pay, and you…

A hypothesis on why that may be:

Most people treat taxation the same way they treat automobiles or software, in that as long as the features they do want are available for a price they're willing to pay, they don't worry much about also getting the rest of the bundle which they don't want.

On HN, one is more likely to find people who massage dotfiles and dependencies to get specifically what they want and not what they don't (if not necessarily more likely to find people who scratch build their car to contain only the features they wish?), and so one also is more likely to find people who wish to unbundle taxation.

Re: On Old Age

#90

Post by l332mn »

stakkur wrote: post #75
l332mn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhism is closer to Stoicism than you think. There's plenty of suttas where the Buddha explains how virtuous behavior leads to good outcomes to you even in this life (like high regard among your peers), and even material rewards (like wealth). All good outcomes ultimately boil down to virtuous behavior. This is the workings of Karma, one of the most central concepts in Buddhism. In Buddhism, rewards follow virtuous…

>>It's really odd of you saying that for Buddhism, life a "dance". This is really not what Buddhism is about. Alan Watts--who had a thing or two to say about Buddhism--disagrees with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

That video doesn't support your statement at all. Besides, I don't think Alan Watts is an authoritative source on Buddhism regardless.
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