On Old Age
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On Old Age
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Re: On Old Age
#2Bold words from a man who, to the best of my knowledge, never acknowledged or reckoned with the role that his own dictatorial handling of the Catiline conspirators played in the fall of the Republic.
Re: On Old Age
#3Bold words from a man who, to the best of my knowledge, never acknowledged or reckoned with the role that his own dictatorial handling of the Catiline conspirators played in the fall of the Republic.
Maybe having his severed head and hands put on public display was some kind of karmic retribution?
Re: On Old Age
#4Bold words from a man who, to the best of my knowledge, never acknowledged or reckoned with the role that his own dictatorial handling of the Catiline conspirators played in the fall of the Republic.
How does one roast a two millennia dead politician?
Re: On Old Age
#5Imagine being a slave and hearing this guy say it's all within you to live a happy life:
>For to those who have not the means within themselves of a virtuous and happy life every age is burdensome
Re: On Old Age
#6Cicero is one of the Roman gems that people tend to miss out on. He lived more than 2000 years ago, and written many works on Greek philosophy (including the works of Plato, Stoics, Epicureans, et al); and some of his own. He often claims that he doesn't take sides, but aims for what is most "probable". Although, in some cases he leans heavily towards Stoic ethics (despite his love for Plato's Academy).
Besides the "On Old Age", some recommended English translations of his works:
• On Duties — this volume is divided into three 'books'; the first 'book' covers Stoic ethics in highly compressed form. Recommended English translation: "Cicero On Duties (Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought)"; it also has very useful footnotes.
• Tusculan Disputations — horrendous name (more correctly called: "Discussions at my villa in Tusculum"), but excellent content. It covers five themes ("disputations"); two of them written when Cicero was grieving from the sudden death of his daughter. I suggest these two translations, which cover the five themes: (a) "On Life and Death" (Oxford World's Classics); translation by John Davie; – this covers the themes 1, 2, 5, and other essays; and (b) "Cicero Emotions", by Margaret Graver – this brilliant volume covers the 4th and 5th disputations, with unparalleled commentary by Graver.
Bonus: "On the Good Life" (Penguin Classics) also reads well. It has two parts from "On Duties", and a few essays by Cicero, including one on friendship.
Re: On Old Age
#7I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing.
And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needing any kind of help for anything or having to take a pill every single day, but I need to get ready for that, because it's going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of my life.
It could have happened at any point. I'm incredibly fortunate to be so healthy. I ate well-ish and exercised, but lots of people do more and become disabled through accident or less fortunate genetics. I think Cicero would agree that I've lived more or less nobly; I've done my best, or at least my pretty-good.
I'm not afraid of it being over, but I'm trying to figure out how to deal with "the same ills would befall him and all other old men". I don't expect acquired wisdom to suffice: I honestly don't think I've gotten any spectacular insights "reason and good judgement". As for the "old men [without whom] no state would have existed at all", I really don't think posterity is going to look kindly on us.
Posterity isn't really what I'm worried about. I just want to live a decent life, where "decent" has always been defined as being able to continue to do what I've always done. Doors will gradually close. There's a tee-shirt that they sell at marathons to the tune of "Some day I will not be able to do this. Today is not that day." At 50 I'm able to see the point at which today is that day. I've got a while to adjust to it, but the adjustment itself is uncomfortable, and Cicero's not really making me feel better.
Re: On Old Age
#8Bold words from a man who, to the best of my knowledge, never acknowledged or reckoned with the role that his own dictatorial handling of the Catiline conspirators played in the fall of the Republic.
Maybe having his severed head and hands put on public display was some kind of karmic retribution?
Cicero was demanitated at 63 (beating Ernesto Guevara by 24 years), yet Roger Daltrey (76) still has to sing "hope I die before I get old." Now that's karma?
Re: On Old Age
#9Bold words from a man who, to the best of my knowledge, never acknowledged or reckoned with the role that his own dictatorial handling of the Catiline conspirators played in the fall of the Republic.
So this is where I also struggle with Cicero. He was overly political, very worried about his own image, flip-flopped sides as suited him and was easily persuaded with gifts of status.
But we remember him for his philosophies and writings (or his summaries of other’s philosophy for the more cynical), which did seem to have a impact on future generations.
On one hand, all men fall short of their ideal. But do you really think character qualities such as Cicero’s erase the positive influence he might have had despite them over the longer term?
I struggle with this and it’s a genuine question. On reading his biography I was put off on the man himself more or less, while at the same time his words seem to inspire.
Re: On Old Age
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe having his severed head and hands put on public display was some kind of karmic retribution?
Cicero was demanitated at 63 (beating Ernesto Guevara by 24 years), yet Roger Daltrey (76) still has to sing "hope I die before I get old." Now that's karma?
I had heard that they drop that line when they sing it now. False rumor?