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On Old Age

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Re: On Old Age

#31

Post by jetrink »

lazypenguin wrote: post #26
jfengel wrote: post #7

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing. And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needi…

There was a post not long ago on here by a young man (32 iirc?) that had a terminal illness and was sharing his final thoughts. One idea stood out to me, he said that getting old is a privilege that not everyone has the opportunity to experience. It was a new perspective for me on aging, perhaps the sentiment can be meaningful to you as well.

Edmond Halley (the astronomer and polymath who studied Halley's Comet) made a similar observation in 1693 after compiling the first modern mortality table.

> [I]t may perhaps not be an unacceptable thing to infer from the same Tables, how unjustly we repine at the shortness of our Lives, and think our selves wronged if we attain not Old Age; whereas it appears hereby, that the one half of those that are born are dead in Seventeen years time, 1238 being in that time reduced to 616. So that instead of murmuring at what we call an untimely Death, we ought [...] to account it as a Blessing that we have survived, perhaps by many Years, that Period of Life, whereat the one half of the whole Race of Mankind does not arrive.

1. http://www.pierre-marteau.com/editions/1693-mortality.html

Re: On Old Age

#32

Post by bauerd »

lazypenguin wrote: post #26
jfengel wrote: post #7

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing. And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needi…

There was a post not long ago on here by a young man (32 iirc?) that had a terminal illness and was sharing his final thoughts. One idea stood out to me, he said that getting old is a privilege that not everyone has the opportunity to experience. It was a new perspective for me on aging, perhaps the sentiment can be meaningful to you as well.

I remember this post very well. The thought about ageing being a privilege stuck with me too. If I recall correctly, the post was titled "Leukemia has won" … It immediately comes to mind now when I hear people in their 40s or even 30s complaining about their age.

Re: On Old Age

#33

Post by circlefavshape »

vsareto wrote: post #5

Imagine being a slave and hearing this guy say it's all within you to live a happy life: >For to those who have not the means within themselves of a virtuous and happy life every age is burdensome

I really don't think that's what he's saying. A slave clearly does not have the means to have a virtuous and happy life, so every age is burdensome

Re: On Old Age

#35

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

lawlessone wrote: post #18
Yetanfou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd totally suck if you were to hear him say it here and now. In the context of the Roman empire and the period Cicero wrote this it would probably not register much, except for with a few 'activist' types like Spartacus. Take the way things are done currently which you more or less accept as normal, e.g. the state demands part of your income with the threat of force if you don't comply. Fast-forward to a new age…

Did you seriously just turn a point about slavery into a rant that you have to pay taxes? Lol

He or she did indeed do that.

I find the constant ranting about taxation here very trying, I frequent many financial and more "right-wing" forums, but HN is the only place I commonly see the taxation is theft argument made seriously on a regular basis.

I'd love to know why that is, but it appears to be one of life's great mysteries.

My mother's advice on this still stays with me: never look at your gross pay, and you'll be much, much happier.

Re: On Old Age

#36

Post by circlefavshape »

jfengel wrote: post #7

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing. And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needi…

I'm 48, and have been a bit mid-life-crisis-y lately. One thing that's been bothering me is that the best times of my life are probably behind me. I don't mean the most productive, or the highest status, or whatever - I mean the most fun. I don't want to delight in the "consciousness of a life well spent and the memory of many deeds worthily performed". I want excitement, and adventure. My friends around me not reminiscing about the times we had, but HAVING THE TIMES right now. These things are getting more and more difficult to come by

Re: On Old Age

#37

Post by eternalban »

circlefavshape wrote: post #33
vsareto wrote: post #5

Imagine being a slave and hearing this guy say it's all within you to live a happy life: >For to those who have not the means within themselves of a virtuous and happy life every age is burdensome

I really don't think that's what he's saying. A slave clearly does not have the means to have a virtuous and happy life, so every age is burdensome

He did say “within”.

The Christian religion in Europe got its start mainly with slaves and poor people. I am not familiar with the details of early Christianity in Rome, but I suspect there are likely major Christian saints who were in fact slaves.

Bilal, a slave who was one of the vanguard of Muslims, also has a pretty exalted rank. There were other slaves, mainly in the mystic track of Islam, that are also highly regarded for their “virtue” and apparent perfect peace with God (“happy”?).

The Human experience is ultimately an internal, subjective affair between the human and (perceived) Reality (aka God).

Re: On Old Age

#38

Post by kashyapc »

jfengel wrote: post #7

I'm 50 now, and this is going to be hard for me because I've got little practice in dealing with disability. Even now, I'm about to run a celebratory 50k rather than my usual yearly 42k marathon. I will never again break my best time, but it's my annual proof that I can still do this thing. And yet it's coming. Bifocals are in my near future. I have very preliminary symptoms of prostate trouble. I'm not used to needi…

You might want to check out the more poetically-sensible Seneca, who was born a little after his fellow Roman, Cicero, and wasn't particularly fond of him. Seneca too addresses the "growing old" topic quite often and incessantly in his (124 excellent) letters and other essays. Allow me to quote from his Letter 12 ("Visiting a childhood home"):

[quote]

"... Let us embrace old age and love it. It is full of pleasure if you know what use to make of it. Fruit is sweetest just before it spoils, boyhood most attractive as it is departing; when one is devoted to wine, it is the last drink that brings the most pleasure—the one that puts you under, giving the final push to inebriation. Every pleasure saves its greatest delights for its last moments. The most pleasurable time of life is on the downhill side, but before the drop-off . Even the time that stands at the very brink has its own pleasures, I believe. Or if not, then it has this instead: one no longer feels the need of any. How sweet it is to have worn out one’s desires and left them behind! ..."

"The happiest person, the most untroubled possessor of himself, is the one who awaits the morrow without anxiety. Anyone who has said, “I have done living” rises profitably each morning, having gained one day."

[/quote]

Some more quotes from Seneca's letters here[+]. His Letter 26 is entirely about growing old.

PS: The English translation used to quote the above bits: Letters on Ethics [University of Chicago Press]

[+] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24400629

Re: On Old Age

#39

Post by ChomskyNormal4m »

> Marcus Tullius Cicero was a Roman statesman, lawyer, scholar, and writer who tried to uphold republican principles in the final civil wars that destroyed the Roman Republic.

Cicero was a man who fought against the tribunes representing the vast majority of Roman citizens, and for the power of the idle class aristocracy which did not work.

He also was like an ancient embodiment of QAnon (which sees the US Democratic Party leadership as involved in a child sex conspiracy) - he accused populare aligned senators like Catiline of defiling the sacred Vestal virgins in Senate hearings.

Re: On Old Age

#40

Post by 082349872349872 »

eternalban wrote: post #37
circlefavshape wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think that's what he's saying. A slave clearly does not have the means to have a virtuous and happy life, so every age is burdensome

He did say “within”. The Christian religion in Europe got its start mainly with slaves and poor people. I am not familiar with the details of early Christianity in Rome, but I suspect there are likely major Christian saints who were in fact slaves. Bilal, a slave who was one of the vanguard of Muslims, also has a pretty exalted rank. There were other slaves, mainly in the mystic track of Islam, that are also highly r…

The Benedict Option[1] having been mentioned on HN, I recently read a translation of Benedict's Rule. He's pretty clear that entering by the narrow gate implies giving up not only private property, but also personal property, and even personal volition.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/50040/50040-h/50040-h.html#c...

Given that doctrine in 516, it's no wonder the early christian church appealed mainly to slaves and poor people.

[1] St. Benedict is not fond of Sarabaites.

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