Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#401

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:30 PM UTC

another_sock wrote: post #166

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

The West Coast and its inhabitants live in a bit of a unique bubble and assume that the rest of the world see things in the very progressive manner they do, and expect that companies will march in lockstep with this sort of unique bubble. It's a very internalized unrecognized sort of expectation, but that's because so many companies have accepted these expectations completely. The rest of the country doesn't really c…

> "The West Coast and its inhabitants live in a bit of a unique bubble and assume that the rest of the world see things in the very progressive manner they do."

That's tarring with rather a broad brush. There are a lot of old school liberals on the west coast who strongly disapprove of the progressives and their behavior, including myself. The progressives' "You are either with us or against us" rhetoric is diametrically opposed to the liberal "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." philosophy.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#402

Post by username90 » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

voxl wrote: post #349

nemo44x wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s generally a small but vocal group. And I wouldn’t call it politics so much as activism. A sort of religious zeal has made its way into our institutions like schools and universities. Some people have taken to it like a missionary would religion and believe it’s their duty to spread the word everywhere at all times. The Inquisition was no different in this regard. You just have to read what the activism says. It…

Yikes, talk about MAGA propaganda. Trump is a proto fascist, if Americans don't want to be apart of the new axis of evil they better be activists. This has nothing to do with calling everything racist or sexist, the fact that you think so has me suspicious of your views on the world.

This might come as a shock to you, but a large majority dislike political correctness no matter what group they belong to. They just go through the motions because they are attacked if they don't.

> While 83 percent of respondents who make less than $50,000 dislike political correctness, just 70 percent of those who make more than $100,000 are skeptical about it. And while 87 percent who have never attended college think that political correctness has grown to be a problem, only 66 percent of those with a postgraduate degree share that sentiment.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majo...

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#403

Post by lordlimecat » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

wwright wrote: post #127

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

This is a blog about the company's direction, not about whether it will perfectly conform to the ideals laid out. The CEO is not claiming that they are apolitical, but that that is their goal.

>Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society,

An organization can be apolitical in which clients it takes, how it applies its agreements and rules, and its involvement in the campaign process.

>How can they truly be neutral on all of these issues that are directly relevant to the business they do?

They do not need to take a stance on law circumvention or the right to privacy other than to uphold the law and maximize customer value.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#404

Post by ed25519FUUU » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

The replies to your comment exemplify Coinbase’s delicate position, or more specifically why you can’t be apolitical while physically located in a monoculture like the Bay Area.

Outside of the monoculture, it’s actually extremely easy to be apolitical at work and people seem to get along despite extremely different personal views of each other (for example, being non-Mormon in Salt Lake City).

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#405

Post by deeeeplearning » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

wwright wrote: post #127

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

>I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical

Well frankly you and many others in this country are morons. The past few years are evidence of that.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#406

Post by adamjb » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

lliamander wrote: post #394

ldd wrote: post #312

I will offer a personal take on keeping politics out of my 1-man video game company. In theory, I am all for it. I do not use hashtags on twitter, or openly support any ideologies. However, as a light brown dude whose parents immigrated here to Canada, my existence itself is a political statement (in support of legal immigration) that is bound to offend people. I try, to the extent that is possible, to not say politi…

> my existence itself is a political statement (in support of legal immigration) Unless those in your country who are opposed to immigration literally want you dead, this is a pretty hyperbolic statement.

One can oppose the existence of something on the basis of its location while not being opposed to its existence generally. See: NIMBYs.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#407

Post by arcticbull » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:34 PM UTC

lordlimecat wrote: post #403

wwright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

This is a blog about the company's direction, not about whether it will perfectly conform to the ideals laid out. The CEO is not claiming that they are apolitical, but that that is their goal. >Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, An organization can be apolitical in which clients it takes, how it applies its agreements and rules, and its involvement in the campaign…

> They do not need to take a stance on law circumvention or the right to privacy other than to uphold the law and maximize customer value.

The products and tools and services they sell are specifically designed to permit the circumvention of the law.

They are no different than people who make lockpicks in that respect. Technically the company couldn't care less what you do with the lockpicks. Maybe you're a hobbyist, or a locksmith. Maybe.

Some of their employees may be okay looking the other way, but not all of them will be. Based on the way this is going down it sounds like there was some internal drama about this, and they feel like it's best to part ways with the pro-law crowd.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#408

Post by thescriptkiddie » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

Companies are inherently political. If nothing else they support capitalism and oppose taxation and worker's rights.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#409

Post by deeeeplearning » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #363

chii wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can’t truly be apolitical; that's one of those "you're either with us or against us" type of deal - which is not the right way to deal with anything imho. You _can_ be apolitical - as in, you do not let your political views affect what you do. You keep your political views private. You do not try to change anyone else's political views as part of your job.

In January 2017, several of my coworkers were banned from reentering the country to go home to their families, while they were on business trips to visit other offices. How is anyone supposed to be apolitical in that context? How are the people who can't ever come home supposed to pretend everything is fine? A functional definition of privilege is that politics doesn't matter that much to you. No matter how it turns…

>A functional definition of privilege is that politics doesn't matter that much to you.

Not only nonfunctional but moronic as well. You don't understand privilege or politics evidently.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#410

Post by RIMR » Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #140

wwright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

> you can’t truly be apolitical; that's one of those "you're either with us or against us" type of deal - which is not the right way to deal with anything imho. You _can_ be apolitical - as in, you do not let your political views affect what you do. You keep your political views private. You do not try to change anyone else's political views as part of your job.

There's still plenty of room for nuance.

As an example: I strongly oppose oil pipelines, but a couple of years ago I had to assist with emergency network maintenance on a very large, very controversial pipeline that I do not like at all. My job required me to do what I was hired to do, and I didn't let my politics get into the way. The issue was resolved in a couple of hours, and I returned back to the projects I was working on for other customers.

But we still had a conversation at our company about what it means to support customers that we were uncomfortable with, and we ultimately decided that the views of employees should help guide how we conduct ourselves as a business. That if we noticed that our customers are doing harm, and we believe ourselves to be contributing to the harm, we should voice our concern and decide if we are operating morally and ethically.

The pipeline was whitelisted, because we don't actually help build it on native land, and we don't help drill the oil out of the Earth. We only help keep the sensors working, and those ultimately exist to keep the pipeline from failing and doing damage.

But we have preemptively decided that there are certain businesses that could use our services to contribute to harm, and so we have a process for keeping ourselves in check.

I worry about "apolitical" companies, as they have decided that they no longer care about judging the moral or ethical issues surrounding their business decisions, and have instead decided to operate entirely based on what is legal.

And it goes without saying that acting in accordance with the law is not the same as acting morally and ethically.