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Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

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Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#161

Post by md_ »

nemo44x wrote: post #126
jeromegv wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Nice way to rewrite history. Would you say the civil rights movement was successful because it wanted to put aside differences? Or because they fought for their rights, their difference, and the privileged majority had to make concessions?

Yes very much so. They found the moral high ground and were able to persuade people on our shared humanity. No one “had” to do anything. People were compelled to as they were persuaded that we had immoral systems in terms of individuals civil rights. A universal appeal to shared humanity is an approach that works. Shaming people into a type of morality will only invite pushback.

For some historical context, contemporaneously, the Civil Rights movement was highly controversial and, among white Americans, fairly unpopular; it's exactly the kind of thing that would have been described as politics best left out of the workplace.

"In 1964, in a poll taken nine months after the March on Washington, where Martin Luther King Jr. gave his “I Have a Dream” speech, 74 percent of Americans said such mass demonstrations were more likely to harm than to help the movement for racial equality. In 1965, after marchers in Selma, Alabama, were beaten by state troopers, less than half of Americans said they supported the marchers."

(Taken from https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/the-nex...)

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#162

Post by sammex »

chii wrote: post #145
jpdb wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? Because there's really no such thing as, "apolitical." If you offer web-hosting to a group of white nationalists, this is a political action. "Apolitical" is what people who are ok with the status quo use as a dog-whistle to avoid responsibility.

> If you offer web-hosting to a group of white nationalists, this is a political action. no it's not - you're just offering a service for a fee. As long as the service is not illegal, and you're not under-charging (which can be considered a political donation), then it's apolitical. Deliberately choosing not to conduct business with a certain group because of their political ideology, on the other hand, _is_ a politi…

I don't agree. Selling a gun to a hunter is not the same as selling a gun to a known child murderer. Both is "just" selling a gun but they are very different in practice.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#163

Post by cblconfederate »

kleinsch wrote: post #124
nullc wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from the east coast (and maybe a little from an earlier era) I also find the attitude on this stuff a little mystifying. "In my day" -- it was just poor form to bring up that kind of stuff at work. If you did so at all, you usually tried to avoid being "that person". You don't get to choose each person you work with, so it pays if everyone puts in a bit of extra effort to not give anyone else a hard time. I th…

I worked for companies on the east coast, then moved to SF and now work at a big tech company. The companies I worked for on the east coast were mostly B2B, so we were focused on making a good product for businesses so they’d pay us more money. Big tech companies recruited for a long time with the pitch that we’re changing the world. That has brought in a bunch of employees who joined bc they want their employment to…

I wonder what % of SV employees actually did move there for "making a better place blabla". It always souded as a pure marketing signal , like those old Benneton ads. I can understand that people who work for wikipedia do it, but not the big tech sector. It's particularly hard to believe it considering the cynicism of the current "total compensation"-oriented generation of tech crowd.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#165

Post by eyeball »

michaelt wrote: post #72
howlgarnish wrote: post #11

As a non-American, I find it truly bizarre (and sad) that's it's now controversial to publicly state that you're not taking sides.

I have a theory this is a consequence of tech companies wanting to move things online and become 'platform owners', leasing and ad-supporting everything rather than selling it. After all, nobody would complain if the KKK had brought Microsoft Office licenses, any more than they'd complain if the KKK had brought food at wal-mart. But many tech companies have realised how profitable it is to be Facebook or Github. They…

> After all, nobody would complain if the KKK had brought Microsoft Office licenses, any more than they'd complain if the KKK had brought food at wal-mart.

Oh yes they would. Selling to the KKK would make Microsoft and Walmart KKK supporters.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#166

Post by another_sock »

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #120

Why is a company wanting to be apolitical is controversial? That should be the default, is this an American thing like how masks and healthcare are controversial? I would expect a government to have proper separation from church and state, so why is it weird to want a company to separate politics and mission? I can't see any good coming from being in a work environment where the company supports a political issue I'm…

The West Coast and its inhabitants live in a bit of a unique bubble and assume that the rest of the world see things in the very progressive manner they do, and expect that companies will march in lockstep with this sort of unique bubble. It's a very internalized unrecognized sort of expectation, but that's because so many companies have accepted these expectations completely. The rest of the country doesn't really care about this stuff, but media and tech related companies are disproportionately west coast so it gives an inaccurate picture as to what is going on.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#167

Post by username90 »

krapp wrote: post #13
howlgarnish wrote: post #11

As a non-American, I find it truly bizarre (and sad) that's it's now controversial to publicly state that you're not taking sides.

It isn't possible to not take sides. It's only possible to support the status quo, either explicitly or implicitly, or else oppose it.

Supporting the status quo would mean that you actively oppose those who try to change it. Being neutral means that you help neither those who try to change it nor those who try to keep it the same as before. They are not the same.

Example: A person is being murdered near you. You flee. Did you support the persons murder by not engaging, and therefore letting it play out? No, you did not.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#168

Post by chii »

ivanbakel wrote: post #49
yyy888sss wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are not the same. Every company and organisation will advocate for itself by advertising, lobbying, legal battles etc. Brands will also adopt a LGBT pride/BLM/etc campaign as soon as they think it provides good publicity. The aim of all this is to help the company/org. It's not the same as employees bringing up their social or political views while at work.

That attitude reifies the company - the company itself is nothing more than the collection of people who work together to drive it. Political stances, even for business purposes, come from the individuals who make up the company leadership, not out of some abstract organisation. In that sense, it's terribly unfair to forbid employees to bring up politics at work. After all, their bosses are doing it: and not only tha…

> their bosses are using their employees' productivity to empower those political views.

that's because the bosses (an owner of the company) is paying for it. Presumably, doing so reduces the amount of money the company can make (since employee time is diverted away to an unproductive, but political action).

The employee, however, do not have this right, because if they are doing so not under the instruction of the owner of company, they are taking away their productivity that they've sold to the company (for their wage/salary).

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#169

Post by Seanambers »

onion2k wrote: post #29

I wonder if this is a way for Coinbase to push politically engaged employees out of the company in order to reduce the possibility of anyone pushing for internal change like people who want worker's rights groups or unionization. Operating with a workforce who only want to turn up and write code and never discuss anything that affects them as a group puts Coinbase in a very strong negotiating position because there's…

The activism displayed in U.S tech is damaging both from a organizational point of view, but also its a competetitive disadvantage.

Imagine having employees who refuses to do work because 'they feel they shouldn't'. Or organizes walkouts, protests and are actively lobbying for changes in company policy to reflect their own personal values. Or protests against certain customers of the company, because they are evil in some perceived way or form.

It's smart to do what one can to get rid of these types of employees basically because they are only trouble, they add nothing with their activism in the workplace.

Now what you do on your own time on the other hand is totally up to you.

Re: Coinbase offers exit package for employees not comfortable with its mission

#170

Post by rmc »

chii wrote: post #140
wwright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (and many others) are of the opinion that you can’t truly be apolitical; claiming to be so is its own form of politics (and generally one that supports the status quo). Politics is ultimately about how we engage and collaborate with each other as a society, not just which “party” you like. The very act of being a company is very relative to the laws and regulations your country has, which are of course determined b…

> you can’t truly be apolitical; that's one of those "you're either with us or against us" type of deal - which is not the right way to deal with anything imho. You _can_ be apolitical - as in, you do not let your political views affect what you do. You keep your political views private. You do not try to change anyone else's political views as part of your job.

I think the issue is “How do you decide what is political and what isn't?” e.g. if you're a communist, then the existence is shareholders is political support for capitalism. So how do you remain “apolitical” then?
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