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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#301

Post by scandinavegan »

black_knight wrote: post #243
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

Sweden used to have this really nice system where you got extra money whenever both parents took more than 30% of the days. We got several unexpected transfers of 300€ because of this, which for us at the time was a huge boon.

When my daughter was young (in Sweden), this system was in effect, but was calculated per calendar year and not on the total number of days. We took around half the number of days each, but because we switched close to the new year, it looked like each year was like one week for one parent and the rest for the other, highly uneven both years. I don't know if that was a quirk of the system that they fixed or not, but we got 125 SEK or something as an equality bonus as a result.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#302

Post by ido »

afthonos wrote: post #259
ido wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

almost any Western country That's a ridiculous overstatement. We live in Germany & have a lot of relatives in Austria. We have 2 kids & know lots of people in both countries with kids, it is very possible to have a decent life while having more than 1 child & earning median German/Austrian income (last I checked our household income is almost exactly at the 50th percentile for German households with 2 adults and 2 ch…

Two kids is still below replacement, which hovers, IIRC, around 2.1. Does the math still hold for 3 kids?

If we really wanted to we could afford to have 4 as well. The reason we don't isn't money.

Nevertheless OP made their claim about more than 0-1 kids, not >2.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#303

Post by jclos »

rapsey wrote: post #72
gnicholas wrote: post #33

Paternity leave can be a great thing for father/child bonding, and for equalizing opportunity for women (who face greater social/practical pressure to take their leave), who can fall behind male colleagues by taking their leave. Unfortunately, it's hard to force men to take their leave, and in the US a lot of men don't because it is frowned upon socially in many companies. One possible way to incentivize men to take…

It may not be politically correct. But the vast majority of women prefer prioritizing their children over their careers. The vast majority of men prefer being the provider for their families. > Unfortunately, it's hard to force men to take their leave How about we don't force people into things.

> How about we don't force people into things.

That's all great in theory, but in practice you are always forced one way or another. If you are not forced to take paternal leave, then social pressure forces you to not take it.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#304

Post by ddnb »

growlist wrote: post #201
pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

How lovely. Is this affordable anywhere other than a petrostate?

These aren't expensive policies, yes its cost is more than 0, but what country would honestly be bankrupted by this?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#305

Post by sokoloff »

echelon wrote: post #284
black_knight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

The salaries for devs in Europe are quite a bit lower than the SF/NYC/Seattle/Boston/Austin markets.

You can look at it as they’re “buying” these (and other) benefits via lower salaries across the entire market.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#306

Post by jarek83 »

echelon wrote: post #284
black_knight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

Just gut feeling - this might not be a hit towards competitivity because it might actually be worth to have well-balanced employee. I find a similarity to good quality code - hard to prove its usefulness with just numbers, but it does pay off. Americans seem to struggle with their economy, yet still seem to look in the wrong direction when they try to find the cause.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#307

Post by jclos »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #26
straw11 wrote: post #7

Meanwhile in Germany people get 14months paid leave. Where neither parent can take more than 12.

Before people think that this policy is all roses, a close friend of mine is the CEO of a multi billion dollar international business. They don’t hire anyone from France because the French government makes it so difficult to fire a bad hire. Maybe you could argue that the French are better off without them, but people love working for them and they have great pay and benefits. I’m sure there are a number of companies…

If treating their workers with decency is such an insurmountable hurdle then yes I would argue that we are much better off without your friend's company.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#308

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

oblio wrote: post #265
growlist wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How lovely. Is this affordable anywhere other than a petrostate?

Romania, bang average country (GDP per capita almost equal to world average), not even classified as a high income economy and with a GDP per capita 1/6th of the US one is currently offering up to 18 months of maternity leave at 80% pay. There is a paternity leave, I forgot how long, I think it's at least a few weeks if not months. If there's a will, there's a way. Oh, our external debt is about 40% and our tax rates…

And our collapsing public healthcare system. :P

As my dad who still lives there told me, unless you know someone in the system or pay the doctors bribes or go to their private offices(because of course) they won't lift a finger to help you and just leave you sink in the healthcare bottomless pit of endless misery, bureaucracy and waiting lists where you keep being bounced around like a hot potato that nobody gives a damn about. If you actually want to be taken care of the right way, you have to pay up or know someone in the system.

And once you end up in the underfunded public hospitals, you then have to pay the nurses to take care of you and not leave you in your own sh!t, buy medicine, toilet paper and food out of pocket as what you get there is lacking or sub-standard. Basically, if you're poor, you're f*cked.

But yeah, at least on paper, some Romanian laws still got some things right, even compared to richer countries. Too bad that major corruption is eating all that away.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#309

Post by vortico »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #281
vortico wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I see how it works then. It's funded through income tax from the employee's past work history. Thanks!

There's an additional tax in addition to income tax, but let's not get into French taxes... ;)

Why not get into the topic of taxes in a discussion of social security? :) They're the two sides of the same coin. There seems to be little discussion in here on the tax cost of this paternity leave law.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#310

Post by itsoktocry »

echelon wrote: post #284
black_knight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

>Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company.

In Canada, your maternity/paternity wages come out of the Employment Insurance system, so everyone chips in. Mothers or fathers can split the leave, which is 52 weeks or more. Seems like a good system.

But some of your concerns are valid; from the employer's standpoint, planning around your staff having children isn't easy. Sometimes new parents decide to never come back to work, and in this country aren't required to provide special notice.

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