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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#291

Post by matsemann »

black_knight wrote: post #188
pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

The pay is capped at some amount. But if you're working a job where you earn above that, most employers will pay the difference as a perk anyway.

And yes, the "aktivitetskrav for mor" is stupid. There are some other subtleties as well. I helped make the original digital application in 2015, and there was a lot of edge cases. Like if you're a fisherman your pay should be documented a different way. Fun times.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#292

Post by Renaud »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #26
straw11 wrote: post #7

Meanwhile in Germany people get 14months paid leave. Where neither parent can take more than 12.

Before people think that this policy is all roses, a close friend of mine is the CEO of a multi billion dollar international business. They don’t hire anyone from France because the French government makes it so difficult to fire a bad hire. Maybe you could argue that the French are better off without them, but people love working for them and they have great pay and benefits. I’m sure there are a number of companies…

You can staff your Paris office full of Californians, the labour laws that apply are still the French ones.

So I guess that you meant this generous multi billions $ company has no operations in France?

If so, then I don't understand why they wouldn't hire competent French staff if their operations are located in other countries where other local labour laws apply, regardless of your nationality.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#293

Post by hestefisk »

bluesquared wrote: post #264

Here in "flyover country, USA" I was looked down upon for asking to use two weeks of my own PTO after my company's new 'generous' two week paid parental leave. That request was constantly pushed off until the week of my wife's induction, when it was formally declined. I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. I guess our menta…

Good example of corporate welfare, not social welfare.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#294

Post by matsemann »

echelon wrote: post #284
black_knight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year. Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company. What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit? I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much r…

It's the government paying. Up to a fixed amount. But most high earners are in a position where the company will pay the difference as a perk.

If it were companies having to pay, that would probably lead to some aversion about hiring people without children in the right age. But that's probably an aversion lots of companies in other countries have about women. "Will they have kids and leave the workforce soon?".

I strongly believe giving dads a lot of paternity leave is good for equality. Of course dads should have the same opportunity as moms, but males taking paternity leave has an indirect good effect on woman in the work force as well. No longer is it assumed that they will be gone for X months in their 20s/30s, compared to men. Some argue the rules should be "X days, split as the parents see fit". But that is what historically has put the pressure on the man to work and the woman to stay at home.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#295

Post by tmilard »

I am french. With two childreen. This is a wonderfull news, as this 28 days of paternity leave will affect the child during ALL his life.

So many old father say before they die this : - "The only regret I have is not to have not been more around my child(reen) young".

You never eat someone say : - "I regret not having worked more when I was young "

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#296

Post by kodablah »

bluesquared wrote: post #264

Here in "flyover country, USA" I was looked down upon for asking to use two weeks of my own PTO after my company's new 'generous' two week paid parental leave. That request was constantly pushed off until the week of my wife's induction, when it was formally declined. I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. I guess our menta…

As a counterpoint also in fly over country w/ a 4 month old, I was basically given as much time as I wanted. Granted I only took a few weeks because I was jonesing to get back, but I have peers that have taken months off.

This isn't to discount your general point about lack of compassion, just to discount what seemed to be the assumption that it is always the case and/or is related to the middle of the country.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#297

Post by bluedevil2k »

renewiltord wrote: post #23
bluedevil2k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it possibly make the world a better place if fathers were forced to not work?! Forcing someone to stop working would likely piss a lot of people off, and would generally hurt the companies these fathers work for.

It's a worldview that's pretty common. You equalize inherent advantages by denying everyone them when you cannot add them to some people. For instance, you cannot operate a store of a certain size without accommodating disabled people. i.e. even non-disabled people are denied the ability to shop there. Another example (that is very different) is where UC Berkeley was forced to pull course videos it had put up because…

> equalize inherent advantages by denying everyone them when you cannot add them to some people

So should we force men to take testosterone blocking drugs since testosterone gives an unfair advantage? The hormone is a main driver of competitive-ness and aggression and strength, which in business overall and especially some fields is a huge advantage.

Or give smart people some drugs to make them a little less smart, to even them out with everyone else.

The world is full of inequities, that’s a part of life.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#298

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bluesquared wrote: post #264

Here in "flyover country, USA" I was looked down upon for asking to use two weeks of my own PTO after my company's new 'generous' two week paid parental leave. That request was constantly pushed off until the week of my wife's induction, when it was formally declined. I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. I guess our menta…

> this country has a long way to go to realizing that compassion can be profitable.

Here's the problem: we're stuck in the mindset that profit is so important that we need it to be compatible with compassion or else we'll just sacrifice compassion.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#299

Post by ido »

toxik wrote: post #255
ido wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

almost any Western country That's a ridiculous overstatement. We live in Germany & have a lot of relatives in Austria. We have 2 kids & know lots of people in both countries with kids, it is very possible to have a decent life while having more than 1 child & earning median German/Austrian income (last I checked our household income is almost exactly at the 50th percentile for German households with 2 adults and 2 ch…

Curiously your anecdata does not change the fact that reproductive numbers are below replacement in basically every democratic market economy.

The reason is not only - or even mainly - because people can't afford to have kids. In fact the poorer the country the more kids people tend to have.

Surely people in poor countries can afford to have kids even less than people in rich countries?

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