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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#281

Post by mytailorisrich »

vortico wrote: post #268
mytailorisrich wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically in France: Paternity leave is not paid by employers but by social security. The person still needs to have worked (and thus paid into the system through salary contributions) above a certain threshold in order to qualify. Employers can top up this payment but can then impose conditions (e.g. only after a year in the company or whatever)

Oh, I see how it works then. It's funded through income tax from the employee's past work history. Thanks!

There's an additional tax in addition to income tax, but let's not get into French taxes... ;)

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#282

Post by ajuc »

setr wrote: post #169
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation; even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. So then what exactly do you return to? It can't be your old position exactly -- you were replaced. So its more like a vague promise that the busine…

What do you do when somebody goes on vacations or gets a broken leg? Stop the business :)?

Here people have 26 days of paid leave + 1 year of combined paternity+maternity leave per kid + paid health leave whenever a doctor decides it's needed.

Businesses work just fine - they simply hire more people to offset the fact that everybody is expected to be out of office X% of the time. Also there are temporary contracts and B2B contracts if needed (less protection but also less taxes so they are quite popular with IT people).

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#283

Post by sokoloff »

tomp wrote: post #167
woodpanel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can echo that. Still only 2% of men take the leave, while 42% of women do [1]. I can only speculate as to why. 1) Our cultural wiring runs deeper than just "sex is a social construct" 2) The German system is still quite complicated. As countless online calculators and private consultancies helping you filling out the forms prove. As well as the above statistic itself, since financially it would make more sense if t…

3) biology (i.e. sex is not a social construct) everything else being equal - i.e. both parents having the same salary, career prospects, desire to work vs. spend time with baby, energy levels, etc. - it's simply more efficient for the woman to take care of the baby, as she's the only one that can feed it (or, more specifically, her feeding the baby is very likely medically better than using baby food)

It’s possible (and we did) to arrange for the father to feed using frozen breast milk. It’s not quite as convenient as evolution’s version, but it’s certainly possible.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#284

Post by echelon »

black_knight wrote: post #188
pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

A company has to pay workers for 49 - 59 weeks without getting any work? I'm all for parental leave, but that's a full year.

Does the government subsidize this? That expense could sink a small company.

What happens if the workers leave the company after getting the benefit?

I'm really curious how European firms compete with American ones when workers can take so much time off and saddle their companies with so much responsibility. If every company in the world had to do this and the governments and taxes supported it, I'd be all for it.

I'm not passing judgment, just really curious how this works. I certainly favor parents getting plenty of time to adjust and spend time with their newborns. But I wonder if this is too much for companies to bear when they have to compete with companies that don't do this.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#285

Post by nemo44x »

alkonaut wrote: post #232
woodpanel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can echo that. Still only 2% of men take the leave, while 42% of women do [1]. I can only speculate as to why. 1) Our cultural wiring runs deeper than just "sex is a social construct" 2) The German system is still quite complicated. As countless online calculators and private consultancies helping you filling out the forms prove. As well as the above statistic itself, since financially it would make more sense if t…

This is clearly cultural. If I hadn't taken my several months of leave when my kids were pre-daycare age, that would have been effectively me being an "absent father" in the eyes of people around me. It simply isn't a very acceptable thing to do. You get paid (80%). You can't get fired. Choosing not to do it means you don't want to do it, or you chose something else over your parental leave. Not only would skipping p…

Although I believe it’s best for the family to have the father take some time (as much as they can!), I think it’s sort of no ones business if he chooses to take time and how much time he takes. If you’re not getting 100% of your pay then there could be situations where that creates financial stress for example.

So maybe it doesn’t mean you don’t want to do it but simply can’t afford to do it.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#286

Post by joelbluminator »

Fnoord wrote: post #187
gnicholas wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in law and tech. I have seen many men who took hardly any time off in law firms because it was heavily frowned upon. In tech, it is much less frowned upon, as evidenced by the fact that many big tech companies offer the same leave to fathers as mothers. I believe the reason for the different behavior is not that lawyer dads don't care about their kids/wives as much as techie dads. Rather, I believe it i…

In The Netherlands a similar law was put in effect in July 2020. I'll reap the benefits of this very soon (my partner is due tomorrow). I don't believe its fully paid though (IIRC 70%). Before this it was two days. TWO days! This is our second child, and from the first one I know I still had lack of sleep the first 48 hours. The first week is the roughest (especially for two autistic parents an absolute hell with lac…

It was 5 days before the current change, used to be 2 before indeed

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#289

Post by kryptiskt »

souprock wrote: post #29
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

The kids are a big win for society, so it's not an exploit, it's an incentive to breed.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#290

Post by toyg »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #274
bluesquared wrote: post #264

Here in "flyover country, USA" I was looked down upon for asking to use two weeks of my own PTO after my company's new 'generous' two week paid parental leave. That request was constantly pushed off until the week of my wife's induction, when it was formally declined. I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. I guess our menta…

> I was told the request was 'excessive' and that generally the woman needs more time to recover but the father doesn't need much time. Honestly, would have just looked for a new job and dipped.

Not doable in the first year of a child’s life, but yeah, this is the sort of thing that really marks an employer.
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