Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

vogue.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 485 posts

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#251

Post by ebalit »

jariel wrote: post #148
brnt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those policies are discussed in the open, don't generalize your countries dysfunctional political culture to the rest of the world. Also, don't assume then that your legislators considered the externalities such as poverty and working poor of such a disparate society. Europe is fine, don't confuse the absence of tophits for an absence of a strong middle class. I'm tempted to say Europe is in fact one of the most resi…

"Those policies are discussed in the open, " It's the opposite. French labour policy for example is a giant political boondoggle. It's one series of short-signed populist back-room deals after the next. What 'serious reform' looks like is the 'Hartz concept' [1] - nothing like it exists really in the rest of the EU. The results of French labour policy mean consistently almost 2x the unemployment rate of US/UK/Germany…

The EU gini coefficients don't seems that bad [0]. Did you take into account the difference in the cost of living in the different countries?

[0] http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?lang=en&data...

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#252

Post by valvar »

pacamara619 wrote: post #5

Meanwhile the Swiss people voted to have two weeks of paternity leave instead of one day. The icing on the cake is that the actual initiative asked for four weeks but the parliament made a counter-proposal of two weeks after which the intiative committee withdrew their proposal of four. 60% of the voters were in favor. Two weeks in one of the highest gdp per capita countries of the world. Two. Measly. Weeks. It was j…

As a Swede who just moved to Switzerland, who has a child coming up and will be affected by this, I find it pretty reasonable. Of course, I'd prefer to take more time off to be with my child, but I don't expect tax-payers to finance that — that's between me and my employer. The other side of the story is that in Switzerland you make so much that unpaid leave is usually quite feasible. If you're in tech the compensation is probably less than 50% anyway.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#253

Post by upgrejd »

xornor wrote: post #109
souprock wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.

Twelve kids is 24/7 work. Why I would change 8 hours to it? It is also unethical way of life in this planet.

> It is also unethical way of life in this planet.

According to you.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#254

Post by kagaw »

pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

133 days? Wow... Here in Philippines, we just have 7 days. Normal or C-section delivery.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#255

Post by toxik »

ido wrote: post #106
toxik wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having children is more important to society than having workers. It is a grim fact that the calculus of life in almost any Western country is that you can have maybe one child, but better none, if you want to have a decent life. We are literally a dying breed, and on our way to extinction, we’re wholly unable to even have a conversation about the problem.

almost any Western country That's a ridiculous overstatement. We live in Germany & have a lot of relatives in Austria. We have 2 kids & know lots of people in both countries with kids, it is very possible to have a decent life while having more than 1 child & earning median German/Austrian income (last I checked our household income is almost exactly at the 50th percentile for German households with 2 adults and 2 ch…

Curiously your anecdata does not change the fact that reproductive numbers are below replacement in basically every democratic market economy.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#256

Post by ulfen »

lnsru wrote: post #163
cluoma wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany also has quite generous parental leave. 14 months to split between parents as they see fit. But no single parent can take more than 12 and it's only 65%. 12 of the 14 months can be doubled as well, up to 24 months, at half the regular salary replacement. A good option if a parent wants to work part-time.

Please don’t spread this fake information. 65% is plain wrong! 1800€ is maximum. For tech workers it’s closer to 35%. One can go also up to 36 months of parental leave, but the rest of the time is unpaid.

Even if it is capped at 1800 € this is a lot of money for non tech workers. And as tech worker it should be easy to afford...

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#257

Post by dx034 »

sdfqasdghj wrote: post #209
growlist wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How lovely. Is this affordable anywhere other than a petrostate?

Yes. Sweden and Germany do it. Actually Norwegian parental leave is not that generous by the standards of similar countries. There is one year total of leave shared between mother and father (or other mother).

Germany has a much more restrictive system though. 65% and a cap that pretty much anyone with a college degree will hit. So in reality you look at 30-50% for most people. Still nice, especially given the job guarantee, but very restrictive in who can take it if you have bills to pay.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#258

Post by dx034 »

ulfen wrote: post #256
lnsru wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t spread this fake information. 65% is plain wrong! 1800€ is maximum. For tech workers it’s closer to 35%. One can go also up to 36 months of parental leave, but the rest of the time is unpaid.

Even if it is capped at 1800 € this is a lot of money for non tech workers. And as tech worker it should be easy to afford...

It's not just tech workers, pretty much any academic will hit that limit. And if you live in an expensive area, 1800 Euro can be a severe cap. With mortgages to pay, it can be unrealistic for the father to take more than the minimum of two months off.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#259

Post by afthonos »

ido wrote: post #106
toxik wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having children is more important to society than having workers. It is a grim fact that the calculus of life in almost any Western country is that you can have maybe one child, but better none, if you want to have a decent life. We are literally a dying breed, and on our way to extinction, we’re wholly unable to even have a conversation about the problem.

almost any Western country That's a ridiculous overstatement. We live in Germany & have a lot of relatives in Austria. We have 2 kids & know lots of people in both countries with kids, it is very possible to have a decent life while having more than 1 child & earning median German/Austrian income (last I checked our household income is almost exactly at the 50th percentile for German households with 2 adults and 2 ch…

Two kids is still below replacement, which hovers, IIRC, around 2.1. Does the math still hold for 3 kids?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#260

Post by jgraham »

car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

> The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time.

This isn't just an apriori fact of the culture, but an intentional result of the structure of the leave.

90 days are reserved for each parent (there's an exception for single parents) i.e. if the father doesn't take those 3 months they are lost. Apparently before this policy came into effect, fathers would typically take very little leave. But once there was an incentive to take 3 months they began to take longer periods and split the overall time more evenly.

So even though it's part of the culture, it's not impossible to understand how it came to be, and therefore not impossible to replicate elsewhere.

Post reply on HN