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French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

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Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#191

Post by sdfqasdghj »

black_knight wrote: post #188
pi-rat wrote: post #156

28 days? That's barely enough to get your head off from work tbh. I just finished 133 days (at 80% pay) of paternity leave here in Norway, and the last part was def more rewarding than the start as you hit your new stride and regular work life grew ever more distant. All the organised toddler activities shut down because of covid19. Bought one of those child carrier backpacks, and we've been exploring forests and mou…

Indeed. In Norway fathers and mothers must each take 15 weeks. And then in total there are either 49 weeks (with 100% pay) or 59 weeks (with 80% pay), so you can divide the remaining weeks between the two. But there are some inequalities in the system still. For instance, the father can only take the shared weeks if the mother is in "activity" (working or studying). While in Sweden there is no such requirements. And…

1. The two weeks at birth aren't legally full pay (most employers pay you anyway).

2. Yes if the mother doesn't qualify the father doesn't qualify. I think that there has been a court case that found that this is not legal. But the law has not yet been updated.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#192

Post by burntoutfire »

setr wrote: post #169
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation; even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. So then what exactly do you return to? It can't be your old position exactly -- you were replaced. So its more like a vague promise that the busine…

The business just can function at a diminished capacity. E.g. the team which had 5 developers now has 4.

If you're in a more singular position (manager etc.), then the entire's department workload can be rearranged so that your work falls onto one or multiple of your colleagues while you're gone. Since apparently most bigger orgs are in constant flux, it's not hard to do.

Also, since it's the norm that people disappear for long periods of time, businesses can hire with some slack (e.g. hire 110% of needed capacity) to easily absorb absences.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#193

Post by chromanoid »

rosege wrote: post #126

I love my dog probably more than some parents love their kids. Its too bad you can't get doggy leave if you don't have children.

Your dog won't pay taxes in the future. And there is also some "light" difference between reproduction and having a pet.

For welcoming a dog or stuff like that there is minimum paid annual leave in developed countries.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#194

Post by mytailorisrich »

vortico wrote: post #180

I'm dumb and don't know anything about maternity/paternity leave. What prevents someone from being hired by a company, taking leave due to a child in X days, taking the salary the government forces the company to give you, and quitting Y days after you return? What if X and Y are a month or even one day? Could companies could be scammed for a year of salary while getting only a few days of value out of their employee…

Specifically in France: Paternity leave is not paid by employers but by social security.

The person still needs to have worked (and thus paid into the system through salary contributions) above a certain threshold in order to qualify.

Employers can top up this payment but can then impose conditions (e.g. only after a year in the company or whatever)

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#195

Post by black_knight »

setr wrote: post #169
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation; even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. So then what exactly do you return to? It can't be your old position exactly -- you were replaced. So its more like a vague promise that the busine…

This is really not a big problem. Most places can hire a substitute for that time. And everything is planed months ahead (pregnancy is 9 months).

Also, by your argument it is not viable to hire women of fertile age. Which, in Sweden at least, is really out of touch with reality.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#196

Post by gnicholas »

Fnoord wrote: post #187
gnicholas wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in law and tech. I have seen many men who took hardly any time off in law firms because it was heavily frowned upon. In tech, it is much less frowned upon, as evidenced by the fact that many big tech companies offer the same leave to fathers as mothers. I believe the reason for the different behavior is not that lawyer dads don't care about their kids/wives as much as techie dads. Rather, I believe it i…

In The Netherlands a similar law was put in effect in July 2020. I'll reap the benefits of this very soon (my partner is due tomorrow). I don't believe its fully paid though (IIRC 70%). Before this it was two days. TWO days! This is our second child, and from the first one I know I still had lack of sleep the first 48 hours. The first week is the roughest (especially for two autistic parents an absolute hell with lac…

> Before this it was two days. TWO days!

Until a few years ago, NY did not require paternity leave at all.

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#197

Post by jahaja »

fastball wrote: post #157
SiempreViernes wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employer payment structure is biology?

This has nothing to do with payment. People work jobs in society. Even if you don't live in a society where you get paid a wage for working that job, time still needs to be taken off work to have a baby. It's more economically efficient (it takes time and effort to replace the work that was being done by someone, regardless of how employers are remunerating employees) to extend that person's leave than to arrange for…

Why do you think this is about economical efficiency?

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#198

Post by DavidVoid »

setr wrote: post #169
car wrote: post #22

Compare this to 480 days of shared and paid parental leave in Sweden at 80% salary. The fathers are looked at negatively if the don’t take some of this time. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-maternity-leave-pater...

I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation; even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. So then what exactly do you return to? It can't be your old position exactly -- you were replaced. So its more like a vague promise that the busine…

DICE recently published three interviews with dads who are going on extended parental leave (one for 5 months and two for 7 months) [1,2,3]. They are all producers but I think their experiences are somewhat indicative of the work culture in many Swedish (tech) companies.

The following excerpt is from [3]:

There are parts of my surrounding family that expressed their concerns, “if you go away, your career is going to suffer”. I’ll be honest and say that I also had similar concerns the first time I went away. And when I returned, I came back to a slightly different role. That sent up a flag for me. The team had been restructured and I was now asked to support a leader as opposed to be a leader - like I was before I left. I was to support Lars Gustavsson, our Creative Director and the famous Mr. Battlefield. So while I was no longer THE lead, I was still in the leadership group plus I was now learning from a seasoned pro. So it worked out and ultimately I feel my career was not negatively impacted in any significant way.

For this parental leave I worked with my manager Adam Clark (Head of Production) to establish a departure plan which started in Summer 2019. We planned which areas I would work on, and we created a rough initial plan for the transition period. We spent the remainder of the year fulfilling that plan at quarterly intervals.

The result of this early planning is that my role will be covered in full while I am away. My lead position will be covered by another Producer who has worked with me for the past quarter, being onboarded regarding all crucial functions. This type of commitment to planning gives me confidence to go on leave, knowing I will come back to a similar well planned roadmap in 2021.

Additionally a number of my colleagues have been transparent on what they want me to do when I return. Both Ryan McArther (Sr Producer) and Andreas Morell (Sr Producer.) have had sit downs with me and detailed the role they want me to take upon my return. That again, gives me confidence to leave and enjoy my time away.

[1] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar...

[2] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar...

[3] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar...

Re: French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave

#200

Post by ido »

sdfqasdghj wrote: post #189
marakv2 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree your situation sounds better, I had zero days (and due to work being shitty, barely saw my son for the first 3 months), so I'd call it a successful start.

The OP won't have seen much of their child's first 3 months either. Their time with their child probably started when the child was 8 months old and lasted until the child was about 12 months old...

why do you assume that? With my second child I took 4 months of parental leave (2 of which simultaneously with my wife) & divided between ages 0-2 & 10-12 months old.
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