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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

reuters.com

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#371

Post by 082349872349872 »

pessimizer wrote: post #172
jahaja wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole shift to China as the new "enemy" is fascinating. Even though Trump is more or less mental, and is recognised as such, he has somehow managed to whip up this new cold war frenzy even among his opponents in the media. I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump. Not saying that there shouldn't be any but it's still interesting how this can spread to the entire country even if the author is an untr…

Russia, Iran, and North Korea will be rotated back in again. The important thing is to maintain public support for increased defense expenditures.

For some value of "defense". Back when the US DOD was called Department of War, it had (at various times) flagged boots on the ground in china[1], north korea, and russia[2].

Iran, on the other hand, was a brit show up until Ajax (1953) or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–United_Kingdom_relations#... The US would not formally take the baton before ending Suez (1957).

[1] In the lost opportunities department, General Wedemeyer on "who lost china?" (emphasis mine):

> "If Uncle Sugar, Russia, and Britain united strongly in their endeavor to bring about a coalition of these two political parties [the Kuomintang and the Chinese Communist Party] in China by coercing both sides to make realistic concessions, serious post-war disturbance may be averted and timely effective military employment of all Chinese may be obtained against the Japanese. I use the term coercion advisedly because it is my conviction that continued appeals to both sides couched in polite diplomatic terms will not accomplish unification."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Coady_Wedemeyer#China-B...

[2] thanks to burnaway's excellent search fu: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24490540 I learned US propaganda in 1914-1918 had not only been officially going to russia, but also the then-white entities (where American Expeditionary Forces were operating) archangel and siberia.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#372

Post by p1necone »

mtrpcic wrote: post #58
UncleMeat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes TikTok different than literally any other website in this manner?

...being controlled by the CCP is what makes it different. All of these sites/apps have the ability to shove propaganda in the faces of millions of people, only one of them is run by a government.

There are a lot of Chinese companies that do business in the USA, why is Tik Tok special?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#373

Post by pqhwan »

localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

It’s hard to argue that an eye-for-an-eye response is unjustified, sure. But it’s easy to see that, in a conflict, direct, equivalent retaliation is often the least strategic response. It signals desperation (which reveals weakness), and also legitimizes your opponent’s actions. It hurts your political capital (allies lose confidence in you), which is a vital tool (e.g. coordinated international show of political/trade force). Given the current US leadership, though, it’s not surprising they’d press any button they can reach.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#374

Post by jpkeisala »

bawolff wrote: post #325
localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

The part i dont get - zoom also has ties to China. Everyone focuses on tiktok which is kids making stupid videos, but zoom which almost certainly has massive amounts of highly sensitive info going through it, seems to raise very few eye brows comparatively.

Zoom never bruise Trumps eco.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#375

Post by cjfd »

localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

'both sides in the conflict' presumably refers to countries. However, countries are not persons and persons are not countries. For actual persons it is beneficial to have information from both sides. Countries do not necessarily act in the interest of their citizens. A bit more scepticism regarding politicians good intentions is in order. The actual intention of the president of the US is to get reelected which explains his actions regarding any subject much more than the interest of citizens. People saying that Trump is irrational or stupid are missing this point completely. Why is Trump downplaying corona? Because his constituency is more likely to be science-sceptical than the general public and also because his constituency has been fed the 'make America great again' slogan so he has to sound positive and in control. Why is Trump hard on China? Because his constituency is more likely to lose their job to China than people not in his constituency. Politics is a power game before anything else and people would be wise to realize this.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#376

Post by read_if_gay_ »

pqhwan wrote: post #373
localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

It’s hard to argue that an eye-for-an-eye response is unjustified, sure. But it’s easy to see that, in a conflict, direct, equivalent retaliation is often the least strategic response. It signals desperation (which reveals weakness), and also legitimizes your opponent’s actions. It hurts your political capital (allies lose confidence in you), which is a vital tool (e.g. coordinated international show of political/tra…

What would you propose?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#377

Post by vkou »

devwastaken wrote: post #101
zmmmmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue Are you uncomfortable adopting that belief with literally no concrete evidence that anything of the sort is actually occurring? I don't know how you reconcile rule of law with such drastic interventions in the rights of companies without evidence of wrongdoing. If anything you can come up with in your most paranoid fantasies can be the basis of shutting down a…

Any business with china is a national security issue. There's plenty of evidence to the level of dictatorship in China. It's your responsibility to look at its history and make reasonable conclusions from it. If you want some sort of smoking gun evidence you're not going to find it, unless you somehow have a security clearance in China good enough to gain knowledge about their operations. It's a Chinese company, they…

Any business with anyone is a national security issue. After all, wreckers, saboteurs, and enemies of the revolution are all around us.

Can you prove to me that any company, domestic or otherwise, operating in the US has its national security in mind over shareholder value?

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#378

Post by vkou »

belorn wrote: post #370
howlgarnish wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US companies operating in China need to follow Chinese laws, including those on censorship. Google etc are blocked because they are hosted outside China, and are not willing to cooperate in China. What I find bizarre about the Tiktok ban is that they are being banned essentially on executive whim: as far as I can tell, there are no concrete allegations, much less evidence, that they're violating any US laws.

The US could tailor laws that would have the same effect, but would that actually change the situation? As an example, they could make it illegal for all video hosting companies operating in the US to censor videos on Taiwan, Tienanmen and Tibet.

> As an example, they could make it illegal for all video hosting companies operating in the US to censor videos on Taiwan, Tienanmen and Tibet.

Which would probably run afoul of the first amendment. Freedom of speech requires freedom to refrain from speech.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#379

Post by gandutraveler »

Yes any Chinese owned company is a potential national security risk. CCP is already known to manipulate their citizens with propaganda on their news and media sites. Tiktok gives them that acres to manipulate/meddle in other countries. What I'm strongly against is handpicking tiktok and wechat. This should be a law passed by congress which effectively limits companies blacklisted countries like China,Iran to US market. I know this defeats the openness of internet but it is indeed a serious threat.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#380

Post by miki123211 »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #287
localhost wrote: post #20

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Surely Facebook’s a bigger issue than 60 second videos since any bad actor can target messaging at susceptibile users and no one will know. This just seems like yet another case of Republican double speak. Say one thing do a different thing that just coincidentally happens to grab power over others. Also, what is the method of using a 60 second video platform to share messaging with a crowd who will immediately scrol…

>Surely Facebook’s a bigger issue than 60 second videos since any bad actor can target messaging at susceptibile users and no one will know.

TikTok relies much more heavily on an algorithm than FB, though. FB primarily pushes content posted by your friends, while TikTok pushes anything that might interest you. They can subtly influence you. If they hate Trump, the can push joke videos about tax returns and his sexual assault allegations or something. In other words, try creating an unconscious association between Trump and evil in your brain.

Another issue is that, if TikTok becomes crucial for advertisers, we give China power over these companies. Hiring people who have publicly expressed anti-chinese opinions or donating to the wrong politicians might suddenly ban you from the platform.

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