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Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

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Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#311
post #126

It's strange how so many in the US have adopted the mindset that it's important, for national security, to deny its citizens access to foreign social networks. Previously, when China did the same, this was widely viewed as an unfortunate restriction their freedoms -- the actions of an intrusive, authoritarian government. Now that the US is itself considering doing the same, many in the west have suddenly adopted the…

It'd be better if Chinese companies could freely operate in the American market and American companies could freely operate in the Chinese market. But China blocks American companies from their market, or extracts unfair concessions from them. So the US should do the same until they change their practices. It's similar to how countries that want peace still need militaries -- that isn't a contradiction because milita…

> But China blocks American companies from their market, or extracts unfair concessions from them.

This is largely untrue. First, American companies have a far larger market presence in China than vice versa. Second, American companies have made massive returns on investment in China. They're in China because it's profitable for them.

There's a view that developing countries should immediately open their markets to complete, 100% unfettered access by all foreign companies. That might be great for foreign companies, but it would be terrible development policy. The host country would risk destroying any domestic industry it has. Developing countries benefit from some level of protectionism. There's nothing unfair about that - advanced companies from developed countries have enough of an advantage that they can still compete. Asking for 100% market opening on day 1 is like asking to eliminate weight classes in boxing in the name of fairness. That would be great for the heavyweights, but not so much for the featherweights.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#312
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but how is Tik Tok a national security issue, but the fact that damn near every electronic device available on the market is manufactured in or out of components manufactured in China doesn't seem to be one?

It actually has been a problem before, in rather recent memory I may add [0]. China is , for all intents and purposes, a bad actor. They keep positioning themselves infinitely closer to "the line" without seemingly ever being able to cross it, even when they're caught red-handed undermining US security. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

This is a poor example because it wound up being more about Bloomberg's shoddy reporting https://www.servethehome.com/investigating-implausible-bloom...

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#313
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but how is Tik Tok a national security issue, but the fact that damn near every electronic device available on the market is manufactured in or out of components manufactured in China doesn't seem to be one?

It actually has been a problem before, in rather recent memory I may add [0]. China is , for all intents and purposes, a bad actor. They keep positioning themselves infinitely closer to "the line" without seemingly ever being able to cross it, even when they're caught red-handed undermining US security. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

The Big Hack is possible the worst example you could come up with : it is regarded as fabrication, there is no proof whatsoever.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it's ok for China to ban Google because Google refuses to help with censorship and propaganda, and because Google doesn't want the Chinese govt to be able to spy on its citizens. But it's not OK for the US to keep out spyware. Heck, retaliation for China's banning of Google etc would be sufficient justification for banning TikTok on its own.

It’s obviously not okay for China to ban Google. That’s why China gets criticized for it constantly, by both the west and its own citizens. If US wants to retaliate China by becoming more China, well, surely China isn’t the only one getting hurt.

Yes. It's the same situation as 'retaliating' to tariffs with tariffs of your own.

It's like butting your head against the wall to teach the other fellow not to but his own head against the wall.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#315
post #67
post #57

Politics aside, it's crazy Facebook / Instagram / Youtube haven't successfully cloned TikTok yet. No doubt network affect plays a role, but from what I've read, western clones have been very lacking. Maybe US is just not competitive when it comes to quickly copying and iterating designs like China is. It's a skill. Google Meet apart from great transcription feature still feels miles behind Zoom. Wonder how Indian dev…

Reels on Instagram launched a couple weeks ago and it appears to be pretty active. I haven’t seen usage numbers yet

Reels suck, though. Maybe that's because Instagram's explore algorithm sucks, though.

I mostly follow sports/cycling/ski stuff on Instagram. What is the most liked/viral content in any category..? It's probably a woman with tight or almost no clothes on. So even when I get a ski video, it's often some babe posing in ski boots and nothing else. Or for cycling it's a woman with the top unzipped. Opening Instagram is basically NSFW even though I've never liked a picture like that or follow those kind of accounts.

And well, most of the content on Reels are reuploads of TikToks or old viral videos. So not much interesting to see.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it's ok for China to ban Google because Google refuses to help with censorship and propaganda, and because Google doesn't want the Chinese govt to be able to spy on its citizens. But it's not OK for the US to keep out spyware. Heck, retaliation for China's banning of Google etc would be sufficient justification for banning TikTok on its own.

Well yes it is ok for China to block Google, they’re allowed to block anyone they want. The issue isn’t a tit-for-tat they block, we block issue, with the US and China acting like playground children. The issue is whether or not the rule-of-law still means anything in the US. Have the executive block things pretty much arbitrarily undermines the rule-of-law. If the US wants to block Chinese companies, then pass laws…

And, of course, people are still free to voice their disapproval with actions of their government (whether by law or by executive fiat) they don't approve of.

That's independent of the rule of law being preferable to the alternative.

The rule of law itself doesn't put much of a constraint on what the government can do, it just requires proper form.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#317

Unlike some other commenters below, I don't believe that this is a privacy issue. Instead, I believe that it is a national security issue because TikTok is controllable by the CCP which is ideologically opposed to the United States. The next global conflict will likely be one between the east and the west, with control of information being advantageous to both sides in the conflict. China already blocks the western I…

Surely Facebook’s a bigger issue than 60 second videos since any bad actor can target messaging at susceptibile users and no one will know. This just seems like yet another case of Republican double speak. Say one thing do a different thing that just coincidentally happens to grab power over others. Also, what is the method of using a 60 second video platform to share messaging with a crowd who will immediately scrol…

> with a crowd who will immediately scroll past anything heavy (or just plain stop using the app) to get to the next funny video?

the same can be said for imgur but it's very effective in presenting political content to a young audience which is as you say scrolling past. what makes it to the top is self regulating (by user upvotes) and still imgur has plenty of political content on the front page (twitter or reddit cut-outs with links to both OC and "deeper reading"). So I can't see why the same wouldn't work on TikTok (oddly one of the videos where a make-up tutorial was shared contained anti-Chinese content and criticism of how Uyghurs are treated - which went viral. Not sure if this is proof but it is certainly evidence that this isn't impossible).

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... Bytedance is a Cayman's Islands company... Sure, it's incorporated in the Caymans, but we all know that that is just a technicality.

Like every other company operating from the Caymans; tax evasion.

If you keep everything legal, I think it's called tax optimisation.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a Chinese company, they have privledges, not rights. Neither Bytedance nor TikTok are Chinese companies. It's true that Bytedance has buildings in Beijing, and a Chinese app (Taotiao) that is a Chinese subsidiary, but Bytedance is a Cayman's Islands company and TikTok doesn't even have servers inside China. For purposes of the Chinese National Intelligence Law compelling the company to share user information wi…

Yet somehow the Chinese government can control the export of their technology and needs to approve any deal with a US company? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-unlikely-approve-ti...

Well, the US also controls lots of companies that are not American. Especially in finance. They were handing out American sanctions for European banks doing business with Iranian companies.

Re: Judge temporarily blocks U.S. ban on TikTok downloads from U.S. app stores

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the replies from Chinese nationals on HN defending TikTok. Even they don't pretend you can say anything you want there. Their argument is "How much time would you really spend discussing Tiananmen or criticizing the CCP? Is it really worth losing contact with your friends or colleagues who use TikTok and WeChat?" In my opinion, absolutely. Stop it now before it gets too powerful to ban. WeChat already has 19 mil…

Are you pretending you can say anything you want on US owned social media? I still remember when Facebook censored an anti-wingsuit post. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12419313

There is a world of difference to the consequences here. One is content being taken down. The other is possible arrest, gulag, or dissapearance if you ever go to China.
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