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Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

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Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#101

Post by monadic2 »

Fezzik wrote: post #69
narag wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true". That's common in many countries. "It's true" is only a valid defense if you're accusing someone of a crime.

Is it true in any first world countries? As far as I am aware publishing anything that is true is always fair game. The very definition of libel (and slander) is that something untrue has been published or said. I’m not aware of a first world/non-dictatorship that treats either libel or slander as a crime or where “it’s true” is not a defense [in a civil case]. This is a good article on the history of the issue: http…

Courts are not built to determine the truth, though, they're built to come to a verdict. In practice there are many countries that restrict the speech against the rich, including here in the US (ie the whole Peter Thiel/gawker debacle). I don't want to misstate the case, though, you are clearly much safer from these laws here in the US than in other ex british colonies.

Also, what does the cold war alignment have to do with this?

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#103

Post by dragonwriter »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #44
gruez wrote: post #29

The part near the end of the article is confusing. >While this reaction by the hotel does sound excessive I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that this guest behaved like a total idiot while at the property and then turned around with very unflattering descriptions and manufactured truths aka lies about this resort. He then refused to discuss the matter with the hotel and instead of stopping even accelerated his o…

The defamation laws in Thailand are pretty terrible. For starters, they have both civil and criminal defamation statutes (and criminal defamation statutes are already pretty bad). The thing that makes it really bad though, is that truth is not always a defence for criminal defamation offences. The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true". I've read a few of ar…

> For starters, they have both civil and criminal defamation statutes (and criminal defamation statutes are already pretty bad).

Many US jurisdictions have both, and Constitutionally-allowable criminal defamation had almost identical conditions to Constitutionally-allowable civil defamation.

> The thing that makes it really bad though, is that truth is not always a defence for criminal defamation offences. The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true"

Truth isn’t a defense to (civil or criminal) invasion of privacy or public disclosure of private fact claims in the US, either. They are distinct from defamation, rather than the part of the same offense, but aside from that...

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#105

Post by spicyramen »

OneLeggedCat wrote: post #95
gruez wrote: post #29

The part near the end of the article is confusing. >While this reaction by the hotel does sound excessive I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that this guest behaved like a total idiot while at the property and then turned around with very unflattering descriptions and manufactured truths aka lies about this resort. He then refused to discuss the matter with the hotel and instead of stopping even accelerated his o…

lol YES. It's like Americans don't understand that sometimes staying alive is more important than doing what's right. Especially for something like a hotel review.

They bring democracy to the world. Sic

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#106

Post by interestica »

bardworx wrote: post #100
gruez wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, the punishment is excessive but not sure how the guest is “right”. >Your comment is cherry picking the later section while ignoring the beginning, it seems. I didn't claim that the guest was right. In my original comment, the only mention of "right" was in a hypothetical.

With all due respect, you’ve edited your comment, deleting the section I responded to. Thankfully @indy quoted your original text. >What's he trying to say? That even if you're right, you shouldn't write a bad review because the justice system is corrupt and you're going to end up in jail anyways? I mean, what’s the purpose? It’s just a forum and you had an opinion. Either defend it or say “whoops, sorry, had a bad d…

What am I missing? That portion of the comment is still there in the original. And, as mentioned, it's presented as a hypothetical.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#107

Post by celticninja »

Fezzik wrote: post #69
narag wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true". That's common in many countries. "It's true" is only a valid defense if you're accusing someone of a crime.

Is it true in any first world countries? As far as I am aware publishing anything that is true is always fair game. The very definition of libel (and slander) is that something untrue has been published or said. I’m not aware of a first world/non-dictatorship that treats either libel or slander as a crime or where “it’s true” is not a defense [in a civil case]. This is a good article on the history of the issue: http…

There are nuances though, some around whether it was believed at the time, although this usually means a later retraction (a solution here).

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#108

Post by lostmsu »

watwut wrote: post #10
smnrchrds wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if leaving a one-star review of Google Maps can put you in jail in Thailand, it is highly irresponsible and unethical of Google to allow leaving reviews in Thailand. They should remove review feature entirely for Thailand, or disable lower ratings, or show a giant flashing warning explaining what you are risking by leaving the review.

The issue was not so much rating as content of comment. In particular they took offence over his claim they engaged on modern day slavery. That particular comment was taken down cause it broke site guidelines.

Thank you! This should be the top comment in this whole thread, as it is the only one, that speaks to the actual subject of the case.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#109

Post by throwawaygh »

aflag wrote: post #83
CyberDildonics wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says he said "modern day slavery", but the point here is not that there wasn't any defamation. It is that police came to his work and put him in jail based off of a complaint by the hotel. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Defamation is a very serious crime there. The hotel had hard evidence and, I presume, saying a hotel practices modern day slavery is very high up in the list. In light of that, it doesn't seem that preventive detention, which I assume was the case here, is that unreasonable.

There's realpolitik on the other side of this coin as well.

The ongoing coup d'etat means that this isn't simply a matter of "follow local laws", but also a matter of "risk that this becomes a litmus test for the western world's orientation toward Thailand's new system of government".

Cracking down on US tourists for speech violations is exactly the sort of thing hawkish senators in the US might latch onto. If that happens, Thailand becomes a de facto Chinese satellite state.

Which is all to say: domestic affairs are never exactly domestic when foreign nationals are involved. Normally the stakes are low, but in Thailand's case the particular moment is fraught with risk. The juice seems not worth the squeeze.

> preventive detention

AFAIK he's been charged with crimes.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#110

Post by lostmsu »

kjs3 wrote: post #92
JusticeJuice wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between being a dick, and trying to negatively affect a business's revenue with multiple, fabricated negative reviews posted over several weeks. Over the fact you didn't want to pay corkage for bringing in outside alcohol (a pretty normal thing).

Is that really the level of being a dick that should land you in a foreign prison?

I don't see why not. The net damage might be equivalent to stealing significant money.
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