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Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

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Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#41
post #32
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue was not so much rating as content of comment. In particular they took offence over his claim they engaged on modern day slavery. That particular comment was taken down cause it broke site guidelines.

It's just a figure of speech. What's so gravely offensive about it?

“Modern slavery” isn’t a figure of speech. It has a specific meaning describing worker exploitation.

For example the UK has the Modern Slavery Act - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Singapore and they have a strong legal system, they don't just punish you for "being a dick". They do have a lot of strict laws, however.

Sure, my comment was meant to further demonstrate how different nations have different laws foreigners must respect when within their borders. I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. Here's one such example: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pa... Singapore strikes…

I remember that! I went to the same school as that student. Blast from the past. It was a big news deal amongst the expats of the time. Although clearly he did a little more than simply just being a dick.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#43
When I read this, I wondered how much of the world treats defamation as a criminal rather than a civil matter; here's the answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Laws_by_jurisdictio...

Someone told me the other day something similar happened in Korea over a boy band. Guy got a year in jail for making anti-band postings online?

https://www.soompi.com/article/1427494wpp/big-hit-announces-...

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#44
post #29

The part near the end of the article is confusing. >While this reaction by the hotel does sound excessive I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that this guest behaved like a total idiot while at the property and then turned around with very unflattering descriptions and manufactured truths aka lies about this resort. He then refused to discuss the matter with the hotel and instead of stopping even accelerated his o…

The defamation laws in Thailand are pretty terrible. For starters, they have both civil and criminal defamation statutes (and criminal defamation statutes are already pretty bad). The thing that makes it really bad though, is that truth is not always a defence for criminal defamation offences. The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true".

I've read a few of articles on this case now, and none of them really seem to grasp how this law work. They say he lives in Thailand though, so he really should know better. It's up there with "never say bad things about the king" in regards to things every expat living in Thailand should know.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#45
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Singapore and they have a strong legal system, they don't just punish you for "being a dick". They do have a lot of strict laws, however.

Sure, my comment was meant to further demonstrate how different nations have different laws foreigners must respect when within their borders. I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. Here's one such example: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pa... Singapore strikes…

> I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing.

The Michael Fay story was reported with a heavy bias in the US — the media conveniently left our significant parts of the story.

I have friends who were expats in Singapore at the time, and this is (approximately) their version:

- He was caught vandalizing multiple times.

- The first time he was given a stern warning.

- After successive events, his family was warned that their son was in grave danger, and their status in the country was at risk.

- After one or more additional events, they suggested to the family that Michael should leave the country immediately. His parents found that inconvenient due to their jobs being in Singapore.

- After another event, it was suggested to the family that both they and their son should leave Singapore immediately. Again, they chose not to leave.

- Finally, after multiple warnings, and one or more additional transgressions, they threw the book at him.

- According to my friends, most of the expats thought he was a rotten kid, and they thought he deserved it.

Note that this jibes with how I have seen a lot of law enforcement happen (esp. with Americans) in Japan, Korea, and HK. Specifically, warnings often happen before the hammer comes down, and that usually solves the problem. But if and when the hammer comes down, the outcome will be very bad for the recipient. When I have discussed this matter and this type of justice with folks from Japan, Korea, and HK, they all think it is fairly reasonable, and they don’t know of anyone personally who was not given a reasonable chance (obviously small sample size, and obviously the system isn’t always reasonable, but the consistency of the answers was surprising to me).

All that said, I suspect that some folks from developing countries may reasonably disagree with my assessment of Japan. I haven’t had the chance to speak with specific parts of those communities, so it’s hard to know what the reality is.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#46
I mean there are local laws, but there is also the part of Thai islands where they are run by little local mobs. So probably pretty easy to get your friend in the local police to arrest a tourist that is hurting the local businesses. The guy was probably more out of hand then he is letting on.

I stayed a beach hostel once in Tonsai where these plain clothes thai's rolled up in a boat (two saying they were local krabi police) and demanded payment for "music licensing" from Thai owners. The owner refused to do the payoff, and the gangsters tried to physically escort him to the boat for "arrest"... the bartender got me to take a photo of them. They demanded I delete the photo and I was like "no you aren't going to mess with tourists" and they let the owner stay. Thai RIAA is brutal!!

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#47
post #8

I'm not surprised. I had some crazy experiences in Thailand. Once the floor dropped out in our bungalow, as I was stepping on it. Sheer luck that I didn't fall through and cut myself open on the exposed building material. Trying to explain this to the owner and they accused us of breaking the floor and wanted to charge for it. Another time we wanted them to order a cab for us but they insisted we use their limo servi…

It goes both ways... I had similar experiences in Thailand, but I also saw a lot of terrible behaviour from tourists - trashing rooms, causing disturbances late at night, trying to trick/scam or just nickle-and-dime the locals . Thailand seems to attract a particularly hard-partying demographic from Australia, UK and Germany in particular that gives other tourists a bad reputation - who are then treated with a lot of…

It wasn’t Thailand, but a long time ago I went to Bali and while walking around it dawned on me it was the Australian equivalent of Miami Beach.

Those locals put up with a ton of shit from drunk Aussies. But I’m sure they make enough money to put up with it.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#48
post #29

The part near the end of the article is confusing. >While this reaction by the hotel does sound excessive I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that this guest behaved like a total idiot while at the property and then turned around with very unflattering descriptions and manufactured truths aka lies about this resort. He then refused to discuss the matter with the hotel and instead of stopping even accelerated his o…

The defamation laws in Thailand are pretty terrible. For starters, they have both civil and criminal defamation statutes (and criminal defamation statutes are already pretty bad). The thing that makes it really bad though, is that truth is not always a defence for criminal defamation offences. The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true". I've read a few of ar…

Japan’s application of anti-defamation laws seems similar[0].

That is, unless this case got special treatment due to the alleged corruption of Thai justice system.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23935469

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#49
post #11

Pro Tip: leave your reviews after the stay. Another pro tip: know the local laws. American’s are THE WORST overseas because we think ‘Merica way of life is world wide. No, it isn’t, and you’d to well to humble yourself, learn the local laws, conduct yourself as if you were at Nana’s house. Wheaton’s law: “Don’t be a dick”. But Thailand’s defamation laws, online laws, and more kinda turn me off from visiting. Granted…

Sorry, but Americans are not the worst, no matter what you as the stereotypical self-deprecating American may think. If you asked Thai people who the worst are, they'd probably say Chinese tourists.

Chinese tourists do have quite a reputation for creating a nuisance. But in most of Asia the tourists who have the worst reputation for most outrageous behaviour has to be the Russians and Australians. Russians and Australians going to Asian tourist destinations, getting extremely drunk and starting fights is pretty much a cliche.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#50
post #32
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue was not so much rating as content of comment. In particular they took offence over his claim they engaged on modern day slavery. That particular comment was taken down cause it broke site guidelines.

It's just a figure of speech. What's so gravely offensive about it?

Context matters, in this case location.

It’s like joking about child prostitution in Cambodia. As an American it’s something that happens in far away lands (not entirely true, it happens in the US too).

In Cambodia, it’s a very serious issue that really pisses of locals since it’s mostly Western tourists supporting it there.

Joke about it in the US and it’s just frowned upon. Do it in Cambodian and you’ll piss people off enough to get yourself in trouble.

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