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Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

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Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#61

Post by hu3 »

dhruvrrp wrote: post #23

Link to the resort’s response from twitter https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8w... Seems like a messed up situation and i would like to side with the guest, but given I don’t have a culture frame of reference I wouldn’t be too fast to judge the resort.

"There are 3 main reasons that forced us to file a complaint – We are not suing him for just a single bad review:

1. He left fabricated stories on his reviews on TripAdvisor and Google that included xenophobic connotations, accusations of slavery and even comments that could mislead readers to associate our property with the Coronavirus.

2. He had been posting reviews roughly 1-2 weeks apart with obvious defamatory intentions. We chose to file a complaint to serve as a deterrent, as we understood he may continue to write negative reviews week after week for the foreseeable future.

3. Despite our multiple efforts to contact him to resolve this in an amicable way for well over a month, he chose to ignore us completely. He only replied to our emails, messages on review sites, etc. once he had been notified of our complaint by the authorities."

Ouch.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#62

Post by LatteLazy »

gruez wrote: post #29

The part near the end of the article is confusing. >While this reaction by the hotel does sound excessive I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that this guest behaved like a total idiot while at the property and then turned around with very unflattering descriptions and manufactured truths aka lies about this resort. He then refused to discuss the matter with the hotel and instead of stopping even accelerated his o…

I mean, if he didn't give them the benefit of the doubt he could be extradited and jailed in a mafia run prison right?

I for one have nothing bad to say about the Thai mafia.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#63

Post by mynegation »

vimax wrote: post #51
indy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's he trying to say? That even if you're right, you shouldn't write a bad review because the justice system is corrupt and you're going to end up in jail anyways? Yes, even if you're right, you shouldn't write a bad review because the justice system is corrupt.

Just wait until you're home to write the review

The hotel guest works as a teacher in Thailand.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#64

Post by dehrmann »

refurb wrote: post #47
plantain wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes both ways... I had similar experiences in Thailand, but I also saw a lot of terrible behaviour from tourists - trashing rooms, causing disturbances late at night, trying to trick/scam or just nickle-and-dime the locals . Thailand seems to attract a particularly hard-partying demographic from Australia, UK and Germany in particular that gives other tourists a bad reputation - who are then treated with a lot of…

It wasn’t Thailand, but a long time ago I went to Bali and while walking around it dawned on me it was the Australian equivalent of Miami Beach. Those locals put up with a ton of shit from drunk Aussies. But I’m sure they make enough money to put up with it.

> Australian equivalent of Miami Beach

That's the Gold Coast. Maybe it's more like Cancun?

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#65

Post by pmachinery »

vbezhenar wrote: post #53
pmachinery wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raising your voice and gesticulating in their culture is really frowned upon. Where do people not frown upon that? Would you like someone raising their voice and waving their arms around in front of you? > It can get pretty frustrating communicating with someone who doesn't understand. Did you try speaking their language?

When I'm watching to some Italians communicating with each other, sometimes I think that they're going to start a fight, while they're just merely chit-chatting. Cultures are very different around the world.

Do Italians appreciate tourists in Italy angrily raising their voices and waving their arms around at them because the tourist didn't bother learning the language? That's what the other poster seems to be describing, rather than lively chit chat among friends.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#66

Post by sirn »

Disclaimer: IANAL / I'm Thai but not currently living there.

I can't comment about the guest vs the hotel, but this one is also filed under Section 14(1) in Thailand's Computer-Related Crime Act in addition to Defamation by advertising, so it is another chapter in a long and ongoing story of Section 14(1) abuse, which says:

"Section 14: Whoever commits the following offences shall be liable to an imprisonment [...]: (1) Dishonestly or by deception, entering wholly or partially distorted or false computer data into a computer system in a manner likely to cause damage to the general public; which is not a defamation under the Criminal Code" (unofficial translation)

The original intention for this Section was to be used for _phishing and fraud_ (as it was originally based on Budapest Convention), but it is worded so loosely that it applicable to anything deemed "false information" as long as it is not directly a defamation. This is mainly due to the use of word "false information" instead of "forgery" in the Thai version. This Section (and the whole Section 14) has been used by government to suppress any political differences for a long time, and never once actually be used for phishing or fraud as it was intended.

It also doesn't help that this Section 14(1) actually has higher fine/jail time than the relevant Criminal Code and cannot be withdrawn, unlike the Criminal Code. Group of lawyers at iLaw[1] has been pushing to amend this Act for a long time, but lawmaker only respond to them by making it worse (to the point that it cannot actually be used for phishing or fraud[2]).

Right now the push to amend Section 14(1) kinda stalled, as Thailand has much bigger problem that need to be fixed (including amending the constitution so Army-tied party no longer get automatically elected, of which a signature of 100k Thai people with a hard copy of their National ID card recently been dismissed in favor for "100k" names in Google Forms from the pro-government side).

[1]: http://ilaw.or.th/

[2]: http://ilaw.or.th/node/5705 (in Thai)

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#67

Post by pier25 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #26
dhruvrrp wrote: post #23

Link to the resort’s response from twitter https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8w... Seems like a messed up situation and i would like to side with the guest, but given I don’t have a culture frame of reference I wouldn’t be too fast to judge the resort.

In what way would you ever rationalize putting someone in prison for a bad review?

The guy said in one of the reviews the resort used slaves... that's a pretty defamatory claim.

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#68

Post by [deleted] »

tshaddox wrote: post #31
smnrchrds wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if leaving a one-star review of Google Maps can put you in jail in Thailand, it is highly irresponsible and unethical of Google to allow leaving reviews in Thailand. They should remove review feature entirely for Thailand, or disable lower ratings, or show a giant flashing warning explaining what you are risking by leaving the review.

It sounds like it was the specific text of the review that led to the arrest. It doesn’t sound like all 1-star reviews would qualify as defamation. Of course it’s possible in any country to post certain text that is illegal. Fraud, threats of violence, and defamation are three obvious examples that are probably illegal to post online in nearly every country. I’m not sure why Google would need to post a specific warni…

[deleted]

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#69

Post by Fezzik »

narag wrote: post #55
AmericanChopper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The defamation laws in Thailand are pretty terrible. For starters, they have both civil and criminal defamation statutes (and criminal defamation statutes are already pretty bad). The thing that makes it really bad though, is that truth is not always a defence for criminal defamation offences. The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true". I've read a few of ar…

The law is something to the effect of "disclosing private matters can be defamation even if it's true". That's common in many countries. "It's true" is only a valid defense if you're accusing someone of a crime.

Is it true in any first world countries? As far as I am aware publishing anything that is true is always fair game. The very definition of libel (and slander) is that something untrue has been published or said. I’m not aware of a first world/non-dictatorship that treats either libel or slander as a crime or where “it’s true” is not a defense [in a civil case].

This is a good article on the history of the issue: https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/941/criminal-libel

Edit: added the [].

Re: Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews

#70

Post by dehrmann »

gabereiser wrote: post #2

Pro Tip: leave your reviews after the stay. Another pro tip: know the local laws. American’s are THE WORST overseas because we think ‘Merica way of life is world wide. No, it isn’t, and you’d to well to humble yourself, learn the local laws, conduct yourself as if you were at Nana’s house. Wheaton’s law: “Don’t be a dick”. But Thailand’s defamation laws, online laws, and more kinda turn me off from visiting. Granted…

> know the local laws

I've been to Singapore. There's the ones everyone knows about like the drug laws, not spitting, littering, or chewing gum. The one people don't mention is that cars also have the right of way over pedestrians, so be extra careful when crossing the street.

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