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Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

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Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#231

Post by TA1337 »

josalhor wrote: post #138
TA1337 wrote: post #93

One thing that happened to me a few years ago that pretty surprised me, went something like this: I applied to 2 FAANGs, got offers from both. The recruiter from the first company to give me an offer, told me it is pretty much non negotiable, "we have a little wiggle room but don't expect much, it's an amazing offer". It was higher than my then salary, but not by a huge margin. Then company B got back to me with a si…

May I ask you how you approached this negotiation? Did you just send an email to company A with "Hey, company B gives me X. Do you have a better offer?" and go back and forth for two weeks?

Pretty much, it was more phone calls but yeah. My dilemma was not related to money, I was really having a hard time deciding, it was very stressful (not to mention the stress of hiding this from my employer) and really not fun. I was really taking my time to think and these guys were throwing money at me and letting me meet with big names who tried to motivate me.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#232

Post by leetcrew »

skrebbel wrote: post #161
delinquenz wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small companies with smart hiring managers or owners should know that if they pay candidates, especially highly skilled ones, not enough, they will probably jump ship after one or two years which is exactly the period after which employees reach a level of productivity that brings enough value for companies to justify the hiring.

In all the places I've worked, every engineer knew there was another place where they'd likely earn significantly more. Yet, they didn't jump ship. These were not high turnaround places. Either my experience is exceptional, or your implication that money is the only thing that matters about a job is wrong.

money matters a lot until you have "enough". after that, it only matters as much as you decide. it's a lot easier to have a healthy relationship with work when the possibility of losing your job is no big deal. as a young person, having 2-3 years runway for your current lifestyle is pretty good. once you have this, it's no big deal to take a lower paying job for a few years. as you get close to the point where you want to retire, you want to have enough saved to maintain your lifestyle indefinitely. if you're already there, great!. if not, you gotta make up the difference real quick. you need about ten times as much money to maintain a lifestyle indefinitely as you do to maintain it for two years.

that said, I think a lot of young people have a poor understanding of how much saving early on can impact your retirement.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#233

Post by TA1337 »

yowlingcat wrote: post #221
user5994461 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only negotiable because he got an offer from the next FAANG. Recruiters are not going to assume that you can enter any FAANG at the highest possible level. It was incredibly lucky from the OP to get 2 offers and at the same time.

> It was incredibly lucky from the OP to get 2 offers and at the same time. Not sure I agree there. I think it could be a deliberate way to engineer the process to create a leverage which most savvy candidates learn to do every time they're on the market. I've been doing this for the past 6 years. It just takes discipline, casting a wide net with a lot of firms in the initial interview process, and being thorough.

Yes and no. I wanted to go to company A, and went to interview for company B as a dress rehearsal or mock process, thinking it will increase my chances at company A and maybe even provide me with some leverage, but to be honest, I didn't think I'll need to negotiate or that I could squeeze more than a couple of grand out of it. So there you have it, lesson learned.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#234

Post by josalhor »

TA1337 wrote: post #231
josalhor wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask you how you approached this negotiation? Did you just send an email to company A with "Hey, company B gives me X. Do you have a better offer?" and go back and forth for two weeks?

Pretty much, it was more phone calls but yeah. My dilemma was not related to money, I was really having a hard time deciding, it was very stressful (not to mention the stress of hiding this from my employer) and really not fun. I was really taking my time to think and these guys were throwing money at me and letting me meet with big names who tried to motivate me.

I understand you don't want to share many more details. I see you have made an account just for this post. Feel free to ignore this response if it may get you into trouble.

To have both of these companies compete for you in such a manner your resume must be really impressive. Can you share something else? What field of Computer Science are you in? Machine Learning?

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#235

Post by namdnay »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #123
namdnay wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with all advice of this sort, it really depends on the company culture. My current employer for example has a very hard salary policy (basically a fixed number depending on age and which engineering college you went to, with yearly raises negotiated with unions - a very common occurrence in France unfortunately). Unless you’re interviewing for a position with >100 reports they will never risk upsetting this mechan…

At engineer level (who are 'cadres' in French) there's always individual salary negotiation unless perhaps you work for the government. Now, your manager might try to convince you that's this is not the case so as not to give you a raise but they obviously do have adjustment margins.

Not true for most of the big French companies. Try negotiating your salary as an engineer at SNCF or EDF or Air France :)

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#236

Post by awinder »

pnutjam wrote: post #177
awinder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amounts of money never made any sense to me that some hiring managers will die on a hill over. In time I came to the realization that it’s very important for some people to have that “win” / upper hand in the new relationship, as like a tone setting sort of thing.

I'm not very good a social cues and I miss alot, but I've slowly learned that this is often revealing some inherent biases. The managers are ok with paying other white guys, but they are surprised when the meet me in person. I have a white name, but I'm clearly not white. I'm Hispanic, but I'm often told I look Asian, "Filipino", or "Samoan". I think there is some weird internal lens that people are seeing me through…

I kinda flipped through some of your other posts (stalked! sorry), I’d totally believe that this happens. It sounds like you’re working for maybe smaller outfits? I’d consider asking during early hr interviews about what the company does around pay equality, but I come with 0 experience so this might just be terrible advice. One of the better things I’ve seen is that there are orgs starting to take this seriously, and who will make big adjustments when something not right has happened. This is, I’m sure, something that has to be regionally adjusted.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#237

Post by throwarayes »

tome wrote: post #166
throwarayes wrote: post #61

I spent several years underpaid at a lifestyle company as a specialist. I didn't want the golden handcuffs, I didn't want the pressure. I've learned this was a big mistake If you're paid at market value for your particular set of skills, your employer is making a commitment to use them. When they underpay you, you won't get to do the awesome thing that you do as much. So by being paid more there's incentive for the e…

What's a "lifestyle company"? Is it this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_business

Yes that’s what I mean.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#238

Post by jgalt212 »

xtracto wrote: post #194
jgalt212 wrote: post #192

Whenever I look at staff that is not doing a good job, rightly or wrongly, I tend to focus first on the ones whom I feel are overpaid. In short, there is some value in not squeezing every last dollar out of your employer. Don't be underpaid, but don't make the other size of the negotiation feel like he/she got a bad deal.

Companies will never overpay in my experience. The weight of the "budget", the HR limits and the CEO policy is just impossible to skip. These all set the upper salary range.

You work in fintech and you've never come across a grossly overpaid trader or salesperson?

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#240

Post by TA1337 »

josalhor wrote: post #234
TA1337 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much, it was more phone calls but yeah. My dilemma was not related to money, I was really having a hard time deciding, it was very stressful (not to mention the stress of hiding this from my employer) and really not fun. I was really taking my time to think and these guys were throwing money at me and letting me meet with big names who tried to motivate me.

I understand you don't want to share many more details. I see you have made an account just for this post. Feel free to ignore this response if it may get you into trouble. To have both of these companies compete for you in such a manner your resume must be really impressive. Can you share something else? What field of Computer Science are you in? Machine Learning?

I'm just a generalist engineer with some senior roles under my belt and apparently a good reputation. These were not super senior roles at those FAANGs and I'm not making millions, to make it clear.
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