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Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

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Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#191

Post by user5994461 »

ndonnellan wrote: post #183
user5994461 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have troubles taking your article seriously. These whole paragraphs of text, nobody would say that over the phone (wouldn't even write that in an email). I can't imagine the person on the other side NOT dropping you when you're being this incredibly difficult. I certainly would have. Maybe you're in the valley and they're really struggling to get candidates?

I was reading this comment on my phone and had to jump on my computer to say: you should absolutely take this article/Haseeb seriously, yes people say these exact things over the phone. I was looking for a new job in the recent past along with a family member (both software eng. roles), and spent a good chunk of time doing research - reading articles like this - and practicing (eventually via companies early in my "p…

And you're in the bay area as well?

I'm arguing against the specific examples, not negotiating in general (that is a good thing to do). I really don't see these long messages/emails getting anywhere, in my experience HR have dropped the ball for less than that. It's over the top to send them long messages in writing that you will never accept whatever number they give and reserve the right to disagree anytime.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#192

Post by jgalt212 »

Whenever I look at staff that is not doing a good job, rightly or wrongly, I tend to focus first on the ones whom I feel are overpaid.

In short, there is some value in not squeezing every last dollar out of your employer. Don't be underpaid, but don't make the other size of the negotiation feel like he/she got a bad deal.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#193

Post by xtracto »

csa wrote: post #137
forrestthewoods wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would I really want to miss the opportunity to work for an exciting company over some marginal sum of money? The reply to this seems obvious. Do you really want to miss the opportunity to hire a strong and promising candidate over some marginal sum of money? Hiring is HARD. Hiring good engineers is almost impossible.

If a company has a strong history of success and a positive work culture, good engineers will be knocking their doors down. Think 37signals. These places are super rare. Some comments: - I’m not sure about the extent to which this is scalable, especially at a VC-funded startup. - I am not sure if Wealthfront falls into this category.

But the market for those good engineers is extremely hot. So other companies will be offering them better compensation.

Good engineers are never looking for a job. They are in their job when new better opportunities arise and they decide to move.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#194

Post by xtracto »

jgalt212 wrote: post #192

Whenever I look at staff that is not doing a good job, rightly or wrongly, I tend to focus first on the ones whom I feel are overpaid. In short, there is some value in not squeezing every last dollar out of your employer. Don't be underpaid, but don't make the other size of the negotiation feel like he/she got a bad deal.

Companies will never overpay in my experience. The weight of the "budget", the HR limits and the CEO policy is just impossible to skip. These all set the upper salary range.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#195

Post by scarface74 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41
quicklime wrote: post #17

> We’ve been talking about your employer as an abstraction, but in the instant case you’re talking to an actual person. Let’s call him Bob. It is Bob’s job to get you signed with the company as cheaply as possible, but Bob is not super motivated to do so, because Bob is not spending Bob’s money to hire you. Bob is spending Bob’s budget. Bob generally does not get large performance incentives for shaving money off of…

> My job is to fill the headcount that I've got, so as long as it fits within budget, whatever. Exactly, but the budget isn't infinite. Assuming equal talent, I'd much rather hire 5 people at market rate rather than 4 people at 25% over market rate. The net cost is roughly the same, but we can get much more accomplished with 1 more person on the team. Even better, on-call demands are spread out over more people and v…

The don’t overpay because they are going to a FAANG anyway is a very good point. I am way to old to care about prestige (ie. the 74), but my company of 50 people in GA could never have offered me the $75K difference between what they were paying me pre-Covid pay cut and what BigTech offered me for my current remote role. Why try?

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#196

Post by tomp »

pnutjam wrote: post #173
onion2k wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago I worked for a company where I did the hiring and then HR did the salary negotiation, but I got to give a recommendation. One time I hired someone and they accepted the job, but I found out later that HR had negotiated a salary that was about 15% less than what I'd suggested. It really annoyed me. The guy was worth more. The worst part was that he left after 8 months because he wanted more money (he d…

I too never ask for a raise and rarely get one. Out of the last 6 companies I worked for, one gave regular raises of 3% and one seemed to alternate between 1% raises and 1% bonuses. I was around 50K and 85K respectively. As you can see, I've received much higher raises moving companies. Now I'm a bit over 100k in the midwest. Current company brought me in as a contractor at a good rate. Contract house had decent bene…

> I've previously noted the newest guy seems to have some lowkey racial issues with me, which is why I think he bargained so hard on salary. We discussed salary when we were contractors. He's always seemed to measure himself against me in a weird way.

You sure it's related to race? IMO bargaining harder makes more sense if/when you have extra information (e.g. someone else's salary), regardless of whether you love or hate that other person.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#197

Post by bbrree66 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #57
shuckles wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Wealthfront, it may be a cultural matter as their CEO specifically believes that negotiating your offer is a negative indicator: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130708151000-56725-offer-co...

Hilarious, a buyer telling sellers that the it’s in the seller’s best interest to not research their market price. In the finance sector nonetheless.

Well said :) This is exactly it.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#198

Post by pnutjam »

tomp wrote: post #196
pnutjam wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too never ask for a raise and rarely get one. Out of the last 6 companies I worked for, one gave regular raises of 3% and one seemed to alternate between 1% raises and 1% bonuses. I was around 50K and 85K respectively. As you can see, I've received much higher raises moving companies. Now I'm a bit over 100k in the midwest. Current company brought me in as a contractor at a good rate. Contract house had decent bene…

> I've previously noted the newest guy seems to have some lowkey racial issues with me, which is why I think he bargained so hard on salary. We discussed salary when we were contractors. He's always seemed to measure himself against me in a weird way. You sure it's related to race? IMO bargaining harder makes more sense if/when you have extra information (e.g. someone else's salary), regardless of whether you love or…

That part is based on our previous 8 months of interactions. The way he treats me and the way he poo-poos any sort of discussion that implies people of color should have any problems with how things are done.

He was also hired at a lower level and doesn't have my experience.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#199

Post by beisner »

user5994461 wrote: post #191
ndonnellan wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading this comment on my phone and had to jump on my computer to say: you should absolutely take this article/Haseeb seriously, yes people say these exact things over the phone. I was looking for a new job in the recent past along with a family member (both software eng. roles), and spent a good chunk of time doing research - reading articles like this - and practicing (eventually via companies early in my "p…

And you're in the bay area as well? I'm arguing against the specific examples, not negotiating in general (that is a good thing to do). I really don't see these long messages/emails getting anywhere, in my experience HR have dropped the ball for less than that. It's over the top to send them long messages in writing that you will never accept whatever number they give and reserve the right to disagree anytime.

I use similar language in all my salary negotiations. Never had pushback, and every time I’ve gotten massive comp bumps as a result (up to ~50% increase, which happened twice).

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued (2012)

#200

Post by Zenbit_UX »

user5994461 wrote: post #159
TehShrike wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BATNA is king. If you have a great alternative, you're not being difficult, you're just being honest. My second-most-linked negotiation post, after the OP, is https://haseebq.com/how-not-to-bomb-your-offer-negotiation/

I have troubles taking your article seriously. These whole paragraphs of text, nobody would say that over the phone (wouldn't even write that in an email). I can't imagine the person on the other side NOT dropping you when you're being this incredibly difficult. I certainly would have. Maybe you're in the valley and they're really struggling to get candidates?

Take it seriously, I've used this one and OPs to earn quite a bit more money.

The most important thing these authors are trying to teach isn't dogma to repeat verbatim, it's an overall mindset and high level strategy. And you're right that know one you know talks like that... So don't, make it natural by tailoring the phrases to your needs, it's a framework with examples not something to memorize.

Another good one is: https://medium.com/@bayareabelletrist/how-i-negotiated-a-sof...

It's certainly less refined but provides a rough draft on how to play offers off each other. I found his wording slightly rude in his text examples so I mixed and matched strategies with the other articles and adapted the wording for my needs. I ended up negotiating a 50% salary increase and a signing bonus by using this strategy.

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