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Windows XP source code has leaked

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Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#161
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For example when someone giving a presentation or class has to restart their computer for some reason (quite common in Windows still, or one just ran out of power). Boot up the computer, people waiting impatiently - and then have to wait for 5-30 minutes for the compu…

Unpopular opinion but: telemetrics help developers prioritize stuff and triage bugs. From a user’s point of view, isn’t that a substantial benefit?

Very good software was written before people that think like you were taken seriously. Clearly it is not necessary.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#162

I'm actually not familiar with the legality of downloading this torrent. Is this considered legal, or is it like stolen goods, where the mere possession is a crime, even lacking evidence of the actual theft? Also, what would be the legality a group of people "maintaining" this code? (developing security patches, etc)

Depends on the jurisdiction and the legal system where you reside. Copyright is a complex matter.

Long story short, there are two major ways in how copyright violations are approached. Either the other party starts a civil suit in court and tries to claim damages (much like if you would damage someone else's property); or state law considers this a prosecutable felony or crime, in which case you look at punishments such as fines or prison time. Moreover, you may run the risk of being liable to both scenario's.

In the United States, criminal copyright law is a thing:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_copyright_law_in_the_...

However, it does state:

> Criminal copyright infringement requires that the infringer acted "for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain." 17 U.S.C. § 506(a).[9] To establish criminal liability, the prosecutor must first show the basic elements of copyright infringement: ownership of a valid copyright, and the violation of one or more of the copyright holder's exclusive rights. The government must then establish that defendant willfully infringed or, in other words, possessed the necessary mens rea. Misdemeanor infringement has a very low threshold in terms of number of copies and the value of the infringed works.

> An individual may be liable if the infringement was committed: (B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or (C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution. 17 U.S.C. § 506(a)(1).

> Without establishing the threshold value, legitimate infringement, or the requisite state of mind, there can be no criminal liability. If the defendant can show they had a legitimate copy or use – such as through the first-sale doctrine – then the burden of proof falls on the government.[9]

Directly using the code would imply liability to copyright infringement. When you want to compete with the product of a competitor, that's something you want to avoid. A classic tactic to avoid this is "clean room design":

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

> Typically, a clean-room design is done by having someone examine the system to be reimplemented and having this person write a specification. This specification is then reviewed by a lawyer to ensure that no copyrighted material is included. The specification is then implemented by a team with no connection to the original examiners.

ReactOS is a contested example of "clean room design" for copying elements from Windows:

[3] https://www.theregister.com/2019/07/03/reactos_windows_resea... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20341933

> "I think it's a ripoff of the Windows Research Kernel that Microsoft licensed to universities under an agreement that was obviously violated by some, as the code has been uploaded to numerous places, some of it on GitHub," Rietschin wrote. "I glanced at the ReactOS code tree, and in my opinion, there is absolutely no way on Earth this was written from a clean sheet only from the available public documentation." He says that "internal data structures and internal functions, not exported anywhere and not part of the public symbols, have the exact same names as they appear in the Research Kernel."

The issue with this code leak is that any engineer looking at this risks being considered "burned" if they are ever asked to implement similar features in a comparable product and rely on their knowledge. I wouldn't touch it with a 30 feet pole.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion but: telemetrics help developers prioritize stuff and triage bugs. From a user’s point of view, isn’t that a substantial benefit?

Telemetrics are frequently inaccurate, sometimes to the point they paint a picture are interpreted in a a way that’s the opposite of reality. Windows telemetry in particular is not nice because it’s not really possible to turn off on the lower editions and it also does not seem to translate to benefits–especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA t…

> especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team.

Or telemetry made it way simpler.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nostalgia is, it seems, a hell of a drug.

I personally tried to use Windows XP (for my Windows systems, which is mostly VMs nowadays) for as long as I could. First, it was the first solid (in relative terms) consumer operating system from MS. Second, it was lightweight (in relative terms) in terms of UX and, somewhat consequently, engineering. With Windows Vista (but in particular, Windows 8), MS started to add complexity on every layer. Nowadays, I'm really…

> First, it was the first solid (in relative terms) consumer operating system from MS.

That was actually Windows 2000, based on the NT 4 code base. It was near perfect, given the era it was made in.

The only reason I upgraded from Windows 2000 was that Microsoft was extremely reluctant to back-port USB- or WiFi-fixes and support, effectively forcing you to upgrade to XP if you wanted to fully use your modern hardware.

For that reason alone, XP always left a sour taste in my mouth.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if there is source code for classic Windows apps like the Calculator, Notepad or Paint? Would love to recreate those simple apps and chuck the lousy Linux/Mac equivalents.

I am not sure if it is what you are looking for, but the calculator is now open source under the MIT license https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator As a recall, making notepad is like a homework assignment for a visual basic class. You just drag the text editor window and add the menus, there isn't a whole lot there! Paint would probably be a bit more work, but there are a few clones out there already

Notepad is simple to build in Visual Basic because it uses the controls that are inherited from... notepad.

What GP meant, is whether the source for those controls is available.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#166
post #132
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want people to accept forced updates, just send the security fixes. Don't change the UI and don't mess with the users preferences, especially concerning privacy.

Honestly, I've never heard anyone complain apart from tech people. Long reboots are annoying but overall, Windows 10 is pretty well accepted by every non-technical person I know.

That's because people expect technology to suck[0]. Users can be unhappy, even if they don't realise it.

[0] https://www.kilobitspersecond.com/2020/09/22/people-expect-t...

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nostalgia is, it seems, a hell of a drug.

In early Windows XP days everybody said it was crap compared to Win2k. XP was the first one with product activation as well. And people called the Luna theme childish. Then Vista came along and people said XP was the good one.

XP was a bit crap in the early days, but by SP2 it was a lot better and by SP3 it was really solid.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#168
post #154
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Microsoft also has a trust problem with updates. Back in Windows XP era, there was no question about whether you wanted to upgrade to SP2 or not -- you'd maybe wait for a few days/weeks to make sure no major bugs were in, but there was no need to force anything. Today, you might run an upgrade and reboot to find a more secure operating system -- or a full-screen Edge ad, with Edge being immediately aut…

But you experience the same when you login to GMail and it has a new interface or your Phone looks different in the morning because of iOS/Android updates. Users are so used to be annoyed that updates disrupt UX, Microsoft isn't an especially bad actor here. In the end, users tend to disable updates as a response which is bad for security and makes vendors force them to update. Maybe not "improving" UX with every rel…

I don't think it is sufficient to justify bad choices because everyone is making them. Especially in the case of an os, which is a lot more critical than the Gmail web interface or something similar.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#169
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you Where is this happening ? Are we expecting this now ? What did I miss

The amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For example when someone giving a presentation or class has to restart their computer for some reason (quite common in Windows still, or one just ran out of power). Boot up the computer, people waiting impatiently - and then have to wait for 5-30 minutes for the compu…

Indeed, Windows update delaying a reboot at a wrong time can affect real world events. See this example from 2015:

[German pro basketball team relegated to lower division due to Windows update | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/germa...)

> "But as both teams warmed up, the computer crashed," he said. "When we booted it again at 7:20pm, it started automatically downloading updates. But we did not initiate anything."

> After all the updates were installed, Paderborn was ready to start the game at 7:55pm.

> But then Chemnitz formally protested, saying that because Paderborn had delayed the start time of the match by 25 minutes (instead of the 15-minute maximum as allowed under the German basketball rules), they should be penalized. As a result, Paderborn lost another point (Google Translate) in the standings, according to a Basketball Budesliga press release, which meant that it would certainly be relegated to the "ProB" league of German pro basketball.

Re: Windows XP source code has leaked

#170
post #132
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want people to accept forced updates, just send the security fixes. Don't change the UI and don't mess with the users preferences, especially concerning privacy.

Honestly, I've never heard anyone complain apart from tech people. Long reboots are annoying but overall, Windows 10 is pretty well accepted by every non-technical person I know.

Because non-technical people probably don't even know they have a choice in the matter. Macs are too expensive and they've probably never heard of Linux.
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