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Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

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Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#281

Post by gonehome »

lemmonii wrote: post #238
monkeybutton wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminded me of another article about crows. It sounds like gifting is a known phenomenon but isn't that well established or researched. https://www.audubon.org/news/did-crows-actually-make-these-g...

Is there a possibility of human-crow co-evolution? I really can't think of any other reason the crow would give gifts.

Not sure this is required?

If crows are social and they have their own theory of mind it’s not a huge leap to suspect they’d make friends or try and give friends what they think are valuable gifts and that wouldn’t need to be limited to just other crows.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#282

Post by yetihehe »

wombatmobile wrote: post #15

The capability attributed to crows is that they think about (analyse) their own thinking. The article arrives at that conclusion using two methods: 1. Behavioural analysis. 2. Reverse engineering neural circuitry. Is "thinking about thinking" rare, or remarkable? Is it the defining trait that elevates humans above all other animals? The article tells us that the trait isn't unique to humans, because crows have it too…

> Is "thinking about thinking" rare, or remarkable? Is it the defining trait that elevates humans above all other animals?

Sadly, I've seen people who do not have such capabilities. They seem normal until you think why they act like they do. Then you realise that you could replace their thinking processes with some simple if-then, sometimes wired very strangely and counter-intuitive.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#283

Post by Hamuko »

oooooooooooow wrote: post #242
warent wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so blown away by the clarity of speech! After hearing him talk like that, hearing the normal bird noises almost sounds strange, like a human mimicking a bird, or like he's gotten impatient and wants us to understand his native language.

Or maybe he decided, out of desperation, to drop the circus act for a second and try to beg the human to get that leash off of him.

I doubt the bird is that desperate considering it's being constantly fed.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#284

Post by AngryData »

puranjay wrote: post #261

We keep discovering that more and more animals are far more intelligent than we thought. It makes me question the very idea of eating meat.

That is why I don't eat octopi, despite finding it delicious. On the other hand, ive raised my own cows and have no problems eating them. But they also only exist for the purpose of food and would not survive in the wild naturally, atleast around here, and aren't really all that smart despite being semi-trainable.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#285

Post by vbsteven »

zw123456 wrote: post #195
jaxx75 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black Crows, REM, Kooks... I really kept reading this assuming it was a troll post, but still entertained by the anecdote!

I always love when reality and music collide in strange ways. It always drives my thinking into directions I don't expect.

I'm just glad he used Rocks instead of a Metal Crowbar as a Tool to fight off the badger

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#287

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

Damorian wrote: post #121

One particularly early, groggy morning I was walking into work and there were a few crows pecking around the grass by the sidewalk. Lost in my thoughts I hear a raspy old man say, "good morning". I look around and don't see anyone, then I look at one of the crows and it looks me right in the eye and repeats, "good morning". I doubted my sanity for a few days before confiding in my wife what happened and was surprised…

A whale 'speaking'. Perhaps whales are a kind of crow.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/oct/23/talking-...

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#288

Post by mnky9800n »

SonOfLilit wrote: post #203
jancsika wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know at least octopi can use computer screens, and I know they enjoy hard puzzles that reward them with food, so it should be easy to teach them some computer puzzle game? I'm not sure it's that easy. For example, suppose a race of hyperintelligent octopuses beam down and decide to study your intelligence. They notice in one test that if you begin scrambling eggs for breakfast and they cut off both your arms at t…

I mean, they'd be right that my intelligence is not as well distributed as theirs. But that's a specific feature of their intelligence, that's not general intelligence. If an octopus can beat me at Sokoban, I don't care whether it thinks with its brain or its arms, I would like to hire it as a programmer for my startup. If an octopus tries its best to play Sokoban, beats the tutorial but can't figure out the levels w…

I feel like you are hyper focused on the idea of general intelligence which is why you are not finding what you want. Most people studying intelligence don't buy into a general intelligence idea. It certainly isn't present in most people who perform transfer of knowledge tasks.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#289

Post by kwhitefoot »

redisman wrote: post #132

I wonder could you breed crows like you do dogs or livestock by selecting for the largest brain in each generation? At least physiological changes seem to be pretty profound but maybe the brain is harder to coax to grow.

It depends on the variation being present in the population. In the absence of mutation all you can do is increase the average brain size (or whatever attribute you are selecting for) within the range that was already present. But of course if done over a sufficiently long time then mutations might allow a real increase.

Surely the same would apply to any animal. But who has the time, resources, and interest to do it? Considering that we have been breeding animals for several thousand years here are remarkably few animal types that have been subjected to long term artificial selection over the thousands of generations necessary. Dogs, cattle, horses, pigs, sheep, goats, chickens, turkeys, and a few more. None of them have been selected for general intelligence as far as I can see and anyway no farmer wants independently minded sheep.

I suspect that the biggest problem would be that it takes many human generations to do it not just many generations of the target animal.

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