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Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

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Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#11
post #9
post #3

I’ve always thought this was confirmed with the video of one snowboarding down a roof. https://youtu.be/1WupH8oyrAo

Something that is also super interesting is how cats or dogs react to e.g. cat-face filters when they see themselves and their human (with a transformed face) mirrored on a smartphone screen. You might want to search videos of that. I like the one where the cat turns around and gives their human ... a paw to the jaw :D

Here's one such compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jto2peSOLac

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#12

> crows know what they know and can ponder the content of their own minds, a manifestation of higher intelligence and analytical thought long believed the sole province of humans and a few other higher mammals. I've always found the common thought that only humans and a select few of other animals are the only ones that posses higher intelligence to be incredibly arrogant of our species. Why wouldn't they have higher…

Perhaps it’s humans that lack the higher intelligence that would allow them to understand that other species may also be intelligent.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that is also super interesting is how cats or dogs react to e.g. cat-face filters when they see themselves and their human (with a transformed face) mirrored on a smartphone screen. You might want to search videos of that. I like the one where the cat turns around and gives their human ... a paw to the jaw :D

Here's one such compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jto2peSOLac

In a similar vein: a cat discovering it has ears in a mirror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akE2Sgg8hI8

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#14
I have been repeatedly impressed at how clever crows, ravens, and certain parrots are whenever we figure out how to test them. I've seen videos of Cockatoos figuring out multi-step puzzles, and IIRC, ravens have been able to figure out puzzles with 5+ steps.

I'm not even sure if I can solve a puzzle with 5+ steps :)

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#15
The capability attributed to crows is that they think about (analyse) their own thinking.

The article arrives at that conclusion using two methods: 1. Behavioural analysis. 2. Reverse engineering neural circuitry.

Is "thinking about thinking" rare, or remarkable? Is it the defining trait that elevates humans above all other animals? The article tells us that the trait isn't unique to humans, because crows have it too.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#16

> crows know what they know and can ponder the content of their own minds, a manifestation of higher intelligence and analytical thought long believed the sole province of humans and a few other higher mammals. I've always found the common thought that only humans and a select few of other animals are the only ones that posses higher intelligence to be incredibly arrogant of our species. Why wouldn't they have higher…

Perhaps it’s humans that lack the higher intelligence that would allow them to understand that other species may also be intelligent.

I believe it's something like the adage, "it's difficult to make someone understand something their paycheck depends on their not understanding."

Think about people who will tell you lobsters can't feel pain while they're rattling in a pot. The idea we are the only intelligent species, and that everything around us exists only to be exploited for our benefit, is quite convenient.

Edited to add: I think this is also related to the way tech companies view their users. They aren't humans with needs to be fulfilled, they're a resource to be extracted. More a coal mine than a customer. (Not to lob a grenade into the discussion, I just found it relevant.)

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#17
You can tell how much smarter crows are just by going to feed the ducks.

The crows watch YOU and your arm, predict where you'll throw and move there in advance, often catching things in mid-air. It's not just reaction speed, they're watching really carefully and making guesses. The ducks are next on the spectrum, they spot it first (after it lands) and geese are the dumbest, the feed can hit them right in the head, and even once they realise what's happening some other duck will usually get there and eat it before they do.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#18
Hopefully someone in the field will read this and be able to answer my question:

I've spent a lot of time googling research about animal intelligence, and I now know a bunch of things intelligent animals can do, but I have no idea where their limits are, what they can't do. Everything published uses such... nonflexible tasks.

If we're trying to measure general intelligence, why isn't anybody trying to teach corvids, octopi, macaques or dolphins a task that requires building towers of abstraction in their own mind, and then gives them harder and harder "levels"? I know at least octopi can use computer screens, and I know they enjoy hard puzzles that reward them with food, so it should be easy to teach them some computer puzzle game?

Say, we could build a four key keyboard that they can use, then teach them Sokoban, starting with extremely simple levels (walk up once to get a snack; walk up twice to get a snack; walk left twice; walk up twice, then down twice; walk up, then back down and right to get beneath the second crate, then up again...) and progressing towards actual Sokoban levels humans find interesting...

If they possess general intelligence this system could tell us a lot more about its limits than a series of experiments that each requires building a physical apparatus and spending a bunch of time perfecting it and then teaching it to the animals from zero?

Did I miss the answer when googling?

Is it that it's common knowledge among researchers that no animal possesses anywhere near enough intelligence to learn Sokoban (or 2048, or any non-real-time puzzle game with simple discrete controls, but I'm pretty sure Sokoban is a near optimal choice) so nobody even tries, nor bothers publishing it (or it's written in the basic textbooks that I didn't bother looking through)?

Do researchers in the field lack access to a technologist that could help them build something like Sokoban For Crows?

Or is it something else that I don't know I don't know?

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#19

> crows know what they know and can ponder the content of their own minds, a manifestation of higher intelligence and analytical thought long believed the sole province of humans and a few other higher mammals. I've always found the common thought that only humans and a select few of other animals are the only ones that posses higher intelligence to be incredibly arrogant of our species. Why wouldn't they have higher…

Perhaps it’s humans that lack the higher intelligence that would allow them to understand that other species may also be intelligent.

I think it might be quite the opposite. Our highly developed minds/egos sometimes cloud our ability to see reality as it is, and often make us believe that we are more/less special or gifted than others.

Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute

#20

> crows know what they know and can ponder the content of their own minds, a manifestation of higher intelligence and analytical thought long believed the sole province of humans and a few other higher mammals. I've always found the common thought that only humans and a select few of other animals are the only ones that posses higher intelligence to be incredibly arrogant of our species. Why wouldn't they have higher…

Humans were effective in their intelligence and rule the world with it, no other animal has shown anything approaching something like that. You judge them by their results.
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