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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#521

Post by orangecat »

karpierz wrote: post #107
onion2k wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you should be legally mandated to make it easy , but if you sell a product to someone you shouldn't be allowed to stop them using it in the way they want to. If you do choose to retain control over how they can use the device then you should accept there might need to be regulation over what limits you can put in place in order to stop you doing things that are anti-competitive.

If users want to jailbreak their devices, that's up to them. Apple doesn't stop you from doing anything with your device, Apple thugs won't break your kneecaps if you subvert their restrictions.

If users want to jailbreak their devices, that's up to them.

Only because of a temporary DMCA exemption that Apple has consistently opposed. If they had their way, jailbreaking would be a federal crime.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#522

Post by zepto »

kodablah wrote: post #493
zepto wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Which is why I absolutely reject Epic et al’s position. They want to be part of a small exclusive group of store owners who get to share in the benefits of Apple’s investments. Very different from the device freedom you are calling for. It must also be said that device freedom cannot come at the cost of security and trust. I and presumably you, have the capability to make good decisions about what software to t…

> They want to be part of a small exclusive group of store owners who get to share in the benefits of Apple’s investments. Exclusive? Why can't I write an app store?

For the same reason you can’t build a phone.

You’ll be competing with multi-billion dollar corporations who have exclusive content and nobody will bother with your store.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#523

Post by sixstringtheory »

gowld wrote: post #286
onewhonknocks wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if you own a store, you should be able to make the decision regarding which products you want to stock on your shelves.

If that store isn't a monopoly and the decisions aren't for purposes of restraining trade.

We aren’t dealing with a monopoly, so that’s out.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#524

Post by Apocryphon »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #475
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't use Android at all, but it is very difficult to accidentally install something outside of the play store. I would even say it is tricky to purposely install something outside of the play store.

I did from 2010 to 2015 and while I didn't have a problem, my dad was able to get malware on his. He actually was iOS from 2010 to 2014 then android 2015 to 2018, and then he kept messing his device up so I told him I'm not helping him unless he goes to iOS. All I know is I needed a 100% guarantee the device won't be tampered with by random people for my business and that other than turning it off and on, there was n…

Do you know the specific method he got malware on his device? Because people assume that Android malware are from secondary illicit app stores, and not just malware that was not caught on Google's inferior official Play Store, or from exploits at the OS level.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#525

Post by syspec »

dingaling wrote: post #403
jonny_eh wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Even better would be an insert in the box saying "buy future Cheerios from Cheerios.com at 30% off".

I frequently receive inserts like that from sellers on eBay, promoting their own direct-sales site.

And there is a reason the seller is mentioning while trying to hide mentioning that to you from Ebay.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#526

Post by Aldo_MX »

zepto wrote: post #39
mFixman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All three allow games, music, and dating to happen outside of their platforms. The Apple equivalent would be Microsoft not allowing any program being installed from outside their store or Tinder closing down all bars in a city to lower competition.

What does apple not allow outside it’s platform? How would they even control that?

Prices, you are literally not allowed to offer cheaper prices outside the App Store.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#527

Post by zepto »

Aldo_MX wrote: post #457
zepto wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this would be great for developers. Having to deal with a multitude of stores run by companies that are even shadier than Apple is not good.

Then don't install the other stores. (That's how people who say "then don't use Apple devices" sounds like).

That sounds like you conceding that it would be a bad situation.

One can think that the current situation has problems and also see that the remedy will make things much worse. These are not in contradiction.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#528

Post by Apocryphon »

spideymans wrote: post #357
manigandham wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.

Yeah until Facebook moves all their apps to their own App Store so they don’t have to deal with all of Apple’s pesky privacy rules.

They'd suffer massive public blowback for that, atop all of their PR woes that's been mounting each year since the 2016 U.S. elections.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#529

Post by zepto »

bogwog wrote: post #494
zepto wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this would be great for developers. Having to deal with a multitude of stores run by companies that are even shadier than Apple is not good.

Are you kidding? Being able to sell on more than one store is a massive advantage. Besides the obvious lower risks and lower fees, you can also benefit from better exposure and discovery (two things that are terrible on the app store and google play) especially in niche stores.

Being forced to sell on multiple stores and comply with multiple sets of store rules just to access the same set of consumers is a massive disadvantage.

There will be greater risks. It’s conceivable that fees will be a little lower, but this will only benefit larger developers who can absorb the increased costs of dealing with all the stores.

It will be nothing but destructive for smaller developers.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#530

Post by arrosenberg »

sempron64 wrote: post #195
danShumway wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple holds ~40% of the US smartphone market[0], and >50% of mobile revenue from app store purchases[1]. Apple is one half of a duopoly. The citations of global mobile device market share are deceptive. It is not necessary for US regulators to prove that Apple has a monopoly in India to prove that they are engaged in anticompetitive behaviors in the US. If you want to make money as a mobile app developer, deciding no…

> You don’t really have a choice Why do you not have a choice? If your product is not stocked in Walmart or Amazon, who make up the bulk of U.S. retail, can you not make money? Having your app exclusively on Android can make plenty of money. Epic makes plenty of money on other platforms. Many game publishers are successful publishing exclusively for one console. Pandora was fine before mobile apps. Many dating websit…

It's not a question of whether you can "make plenty of money". It's whether we want to allow private regulation of markets. Right now Google and Apple are the regulators of the mobile app market - the public has no say in how those marketplaces are run, and both companies use their ownership of the OS platforms to enforce this market control.

Antitrust actions are aimed at restoring public oversight over public markets. Two companies should not have the ability to lock developers entirely out the mobile app market.

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