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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#361

Post by izacus »

granzymes wrote: post #264
jpambrun wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing other stores doesn't mean you have to use them. You could still have your curated experience on the Apple store. Why do you want to impose your views on others?

How much do you want to bet that Epic and Spotify would pull their apps from the App Store or limit the features of their apps on the App Store in order to force people to their preferred platform? This isn't even hypothetical. Spotify already refuses to add features to the Apple Watch.

So "then you don't have to use them" right? To turn the Apple argument against your point? You can use a nicely curated app that's safe for you.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#362

Post by sushid »

burlesona wrote: post #114
AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

Yes, it means Sony has to add Steam to PS5 or else it is narrow and arbitrary. To me the iPhone is a console, end of story. If you like the console experience, it’s a great device. If you don’t, there are a million android and even alternative OS based phones out there which are more like a PC. If you want your phone to be a PC, you should do what most people around the world do and buy one of those. Instead we have…

This is so ridiculous. Do you sign into your bank or trade stocks on your XBox? Where would you access important documents outside of your desktop/laptop?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#363

Post by jpambrun »

pb7 wrote: post #333
jpambrun wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing other stores doesn't mean you have to use them. You could still have your curated experience on the Apple store. Why do you want to impose your views on others?

Yes, it does mean that you have to use them (if you already do). If you're a user of Spotify or Tinder and they pull out of the App Store, you now have to follow whatever arbitrary consumer-hostile decisions that will make them the most money since there's no one to tell them otherwise. I like that they have to follow the strict rules in the App Store because I know they want that sweet sweet App Store money and won'…

Forcing you to use 3rd party store for few apps is somehow worst than forcing everyone to use the Apple store for all apps?

This discussion is moot. Apple only has to lower it's cut to cost + a reasonable markup instead of abusing it's position to charge 30%. Then everybody can be happy.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#365

Post by grawprog »

graeme wrote: post #92
danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

Indeed, what is the cheerios example supposed to show? I don’t expect the discount coupon comes out of the store’s cut. Tinder or Epic are free to discount boosts or in game purchases, and spotify can give free months. The cheerios example probably involves a fair bit of negotiation between manufacturer and retailer. Whereas apps can discount whenever they choose, without permission.

> I don’t expect the discount coupon comes out of the store’s cut.

That's how it used to work at the grocery store I worked at. The flyers were prepared a couple weeks in advance, the sales matched up with every other store that ordered food from loblaws, it was ordered down from loblaws to the stores that carry the products they ship and sell what things would be on sale on any given week throughout all the stores.

This is why superstores, extra foods, the independent grocers and super valus all have the same stuff on sale the same weeks.

The only things the store decided to put on sale was clearance stuff getting close to the expiry date.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#367

Post by cblconfederate »

I don't see why they would advocate Apple to change their app store. Is it possible for one corporate to meddle into the product of another? They are also unlikely to achieve anything on the legal side of things.

Instead they 'd better spend for things like :

- promote awareness of monopolistic tactics to apple device owners

- create a well advertised web payments gateway where users can buy subscriptions to any app, and invite developers to join

- syndicalize the hordes of developers to blackout their apps or sth

here, i made a mockup: https://i.imgur.com/P6j3jnd.png

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#368

Post by kemayo »

asou wrote: post #150
damnyou wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the world I inhabit, Apple is the one that intentionally makes it really hard to cancel subscriptions. You literally cannot cancel a subscription to an iOS app from an Android phone or Linux PC.

You can't subscribe without an IOS Device , Mac or Windows PC. If your in some strange edge case where your subscribing to services and then discarding your IOS devices before canceling , that's on you. In a worst case scenario you could borrow a friend's Windows PC. As much as I love Linux I can't imagine most Linux users don't have at least one windows PC or Mac. If we really want to get technical, spin up an AWS i…

There are a few services you can sign up for without any of those... but Apple has a support page telling you how to unsubscribe from those from the devices you signed up from: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211011

Said support page also says you can contact Apple Support about it, which I imagine would also work for the "canceling an arbitrary in-app subscription" issue.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#369

Post by joekim »

dgellow wrote: post #296
danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

What I learned from past experiences is to never use analogies. They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive. Also it often only makes sense in the mind of the author...

> What I learned from past experiences is to never use analogies. They are almost always a source of distraction, people start to argue about the analogy itself instead of the topic at hand, which is almost always completely counter productive.

As other's have mentioned, perhaps this is only for literal minded thinkers. In Pre-suasion by Robert Cialdini metaphors are identified as the most effective persuasion device. Essentially, take something the audience understands well and use it explain something else.

An anecdote Cialdini provides is from a person who had many years of being the top life insurance salesman in the country. He used a metaphor of "when you check out, your life insurance checks in". The metaphor brought up feelings of abandonment and support in a way that people quickly understood and bought into.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#370

Post by [deleted] »

dleslie wrote: post #279
im3w1l wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you want to install whichever apps you want, AND not be spied on by your OS, there are basically no options. Linageos is a possibility, but with the play services situation, running any mainstream app without phoning home to google is if not impossible, extremely difficult and filled with footguns. Pine and Librem are exciting emerging possibilities but they have only been available for a very short time so it…

PinePhone is available to order right now; and it's cheap as hell.

[deleted]
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