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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#151

Post by ksk »

koheripbal wrote: post #125
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

You'd be hard pressed to find a company that is popular and doesnt have accusations, haters, and lawsuits for something or other. It's part of running a complex large business.

Anything you disagree with here? https://appfairness.org/our-vision/

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#152

Post by adwi »

shadowgovt wrote: post #50

Ah, okay. Now I begin to see their goals. I've been trying to wrap my head around why Epic would shoulder-tackle Apple in the space of app stores, when they have their own app store. Naively, I've been thinking that any ruling adverse to Apple here also impacts Epic's business model---if the government caps app store revenue cuts at, say, 10%, that's a slice off the top of what Epic can charge developers going throug…

I think it’s worth noting how hostile Epic’s app store is to its customers.

They force you to use it to launch games you’ve already purchased from them, which just means you have to waste processor cycles to wade through a grip of their blaring ads (and can only imagine the data they’re collecting/monetizing from this)

Pure enter through the gift shop.

The dark patterns are egregious as well; a tech-savvy friend bought a game from them so we could multiplayer. I got a call from him 20 minutes later because he was unable to find the game he just purchased, even the transaction went through and it was downloaded.

Turns out they had a “feature” hidden in the preferences that was enabled by default to hide the library of your purchased games from the navigation menu.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#153

Post by zepto »

shadowgovt wrote: post #88
zepto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - and they control their own platform. Therefore they are a monopolist. /s I clearly don’t actually believe this, but the point is that if Apple is a Monopolist, then so is Epic.

Apple is a vertical monopolist across a large-market-share hardware platform it manufactures and an exclusive system for putting software onto that platform. Epic has a store, but doesn't have a large-market-share hardware platform they control exclusively to go with it. Any machine I can install the Epic app store on, I can also install Steam on.

Apple’s market share isn’t large enough for this argument to work.

If people are pushing for a change in framework where no hardware manufacturer is allowed to control what software is installed on their platform, I actually think that might be a good change across the board.

The groups targeting Apple don’t care about any such freedom. They simply want more money for themselves without having to invest.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#154

Post by danShumway »

sithadmin wrote: post #118
danShumway wrote: post #11

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

Your cereal aisle analogy is a bad one, for two reasons. For one, everything about the merchandising of a particular product in a big box store is agreed upon in advance between the retailer and the manufacturer before the product is placed in the store: the product placement on the shelves; what kind of manufacturer incentives (e.g. coupons) the retailer will honor for the product and how renumerations will be made…

It's not my cereal analogy, it's theirs. I brought it up specifically to showcase that a lot of the arguments I'm reading on their site don't map the current situation.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#155

Post by kemiller »

izacus wrote: post #116
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

Interesting how there's so many posts here attacking the companies behind the action (ad hominem style) by specifying actions that have nothing to do with the abuses Apple and AppStore do. Is this targeted?

No... many people actually appreciate the walled garden as consumers.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#156

Post by xlii »

flenserboy wrote: post #130
sneak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If users didn’t want these things, users wouldn’t buy them. For the vast majority of people, and iPhone is way, way better than a computer that can run any app, precisely because it can’t run any app they click on. I’m a hacker, so I would love to be able to install any software I want on my iPhone, and introspect it in other ways. Most users, however, would have a way worse experience using their phone if they were…

Apple's advertising is built on security and privacy — allowing other App Stores on their system would only open up users to invasive tracking & attacks. I want my desktop system to be open as can be; I'm perfectly happy with my phone being (somewhat) locked down. That said, Apple could allow users to choose to install other App Stores on their devices, but at the cost of their devices being considered hopelessly com…

Isn't this what's the Jailbreak is about?

You can jailbreak device, Apple still will have to respect the guarantee but they don't have to support you whatsoever.

Sure, Apple patch it, but then those are true vulnerabilities that are used to jailbreak it. Maybe they should just have a switch somewhere that would go "enable unsupported mode" that'd show a lot of angry texts at you before allowing you to do that.

That'd solve most of the coalition claims probably. Epic can always put their software on Cydia...

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#157

Post by Dahoon »

AlexandrB wrote: post #124
AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

From https://appfairness.org/issues/30-app-tax/ > For most purchases made within its App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close. This is a straight-up lie and Epic, being in the gaming industry, knows it. Steam takes the same 30% (unless you're huge) and is Epic's direct competitor on PC. Not to mention every other gaming platform[1]. [1] https://www.ign…

It isn't a lie. Steam takes a cut too yes, but Apple takes a cut after that 30% you mention. You don't pay 30% to Steam from in-app purchases. No one except Apple force you to use its payment system and take an additional 30% cut after the first 30% cut of the app price. Unless you are a small indie developer you end up paying way more to Apple than any other platform.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#158

Post by systemvoltage »

izacus wrote: post #116
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

Interesting how there's so many posts here attacking the companies behind the action (ad hominem style) by specifying actions that have nothing to do with the abuses Apple and AppStore do. Is this targeted?

Showing how App Store is consumer centric - I think that's important to put in the context where Apple has to keep a tight grip or else these savage businesses would devour the customer's privacy in instant and exploit their psyche with tricks to milk as much money as they can.

I am glad Apple is gatekeeping.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#159

Post by crazygringo »

temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

> this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular

No it doesn't. The app store is "popular" because Apple users don't have a choice. It's "popular" because they're forced to use it.

I'm neither defending it or criticizing it... but let's not pretend like consumers are choosing the app store.

Users in general are choosing Apple vs Android primarily for reasons that have nothing to do with an app store (i.e. hardware, support, iMessage, branding, etc.) and then simply use whatever app store they're forced to.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#160

Post by mhh__ »

temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

This illustrates why the app store is popular, despite all of these companies rolling in money?

TRAIN WRECK, really?

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