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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#121

Post by lostgame »

electriclove wrote: post #3

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

Epic; in particular, is just handling this situation laughably at best. I can't imagine taking someone to court over my own intentionally sneaky violation of a company's set of rules.

The conversation about Apple's 30% is a valid one. Epic is, intentionally, at this point; taking a sledgehammer to any validity that conversation had.

The way Epic handled this situation was with a maturity level of a 6-year-old kid yelling 'no!' to their parents and throwing a tantrum.

We need serious, mature discussion over these issues.

Spotify, in particular; while a horrible, heartless company to artists like myself, could at least make the excuse that they could funnel more of that 30% to the artists, although I doubt any more than 1% of it would actually go to us. (Spotify CEO is worth $3.8bn and the company claims they can't pay artists more...)

I'm not sure wtf leg Tinder has to stand on beyond greed?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#123

Post by damnyou »

rblatz wrote: post #84
acruns wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be the record companies though? I have heard Kanye is trying to get more money for artists but not really sure. I am puzzled why blockchain+streaming for music hasn't taken off. Artists would maintain rights and profits from what I can tell

Why would you put blockchain in this?

For micropayments per stream, presumably.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#124

Post by AlexandrB »

AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

From https://appfairness.org/issues/30-app-tax/

> For most purchases made within its App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close.

This is a straight-up lie and Epic, being in the gaming industry, knows it. Steam takes the same 30% (unless you're huge) and is Epic's direct competitor on PC. Not to mention every other gaming platform[1].

[1] https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#125

Post by koheripbal »

temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

You'd be hard pressed to find a company that is popular and doesnt have accusations, haters, and lawsuits for something or other.

It's part of running a complex large business.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#126

Post by criddell »

electriclove wrote: post #3

Apple built their controlled ecosystem and set their rules. And now others are insisting that Apple should not have that control (even when they themselves are doing the same thing).

It's about power. The importance of mobile platforms has grown over the past decade. Apple is in a much different position now than they were when the app store started. It makes some sense that opinions on that have changed.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#127

Post by jariel »

temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

This is completely shameful gaslighting.

All of Epics and Spotify's supposed 'shenanigans' are 100% endorsed by Apple, so your argument is not even an argument.

Did Apple's 'moral App store' stop any of your claimed activity?

No?

So what's your point?

I just can't believe individual citizens would be arbitrary corporate shills for a monopoly.

A lot more vendors need to get together to lobby against anti-competitive practices.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#128

Post by Shivetya »

AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

Well they never want to take this to its logical conclusion which is every manufacturer would have to provide the means for anyone, including direct competitors, a means to sell software through their device.

So do we also force any app store owner to also provide access to their payment services as well? If Apple is forced to open the iPhone do they also have to grant access to the phones secure means of payments? This sounds like a paradise for world intelligence agencies.

So what prevents Apple from permitting third party stores but still restricting that only signed and reviewed applications can run?

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#129

Post by immigrantsheep »

krelian wrote: post #90
shadowgovt wrote: post #50

Ah, okay. Now I begin to see their goals. I've been trying to wrap my head around why Epic would shoulder-tackle Apple in the space of app stores, when they have their own app store. Naively, I've been thinking that any ruling adverse to Apple here also impacts Epic's business model---if the government caps app store revenue cuts at, say, 10%, that's a slice off the top of what Epic can charge developers going throug…

Epic scored a lucky (?) hit with fortnite that brought them a lot of cash but I believe their bread and butter is their game engine where do they charge a percentage of the profits. Their store is more of a long-term investment, it might not bring a lot of revenue at the moment but if things go well for them it can easily convert to the top dog.

Epic doesn't take anything until your game makes $1,000,000 in gross revenue. After that they take 5%

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#130

Post by flenserboy »

sneak wrote: post #76
candiddevmike wrote: post #62

Device freedom is a must. Any device should be completely controllable by the end user. There's two parts to this to me: app stores and the data collected by the devices. Users should have the freedom to install any software on their devices, period. Users should also have the freedom to stop all data collection by these devices. This applies to all electronics--video game consoles, TVs, printers, who knows what else…

If users didn’t want these things, users wouldn’t buy them. For the vast majority of people, and iPhone is way, way better than a computer that can run any app, precisely because it can’t run any app they click on. I’m a hacker, so I would love to be able to install any software I want on my iPhone, and introspect it in other ways. Most users, however, would have a way worse experience using their phone if they were…

Apple's advertising is built on security and privacy — allowing other App Stores on their system would only open up users to invasive tracking & attacks. I want my desktop system to be open as can be; I'm perfectly happy with my phone being (somewhat) locked down. That said, Apple could allow users to choose to install other App Stores on their devices, but at the cost of their devices being considered hopelessly compromised and no longer eligible for support from Apple. Let the market decide: a wider variety of games/apps, or a (fairly) secure system with attached privacy promises.
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