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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#441

Post by jjcon »

bobbyz wrote: post #255
jjcon wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘Illegals’ are not in forced labor camps and that sort of equivalence is just gross. Immigrants to Europe and the US need a place to stay while their cases are processed, with the increases in immigration (especially in Europe) it is difficult to keep up with. Does the west need to do better? Absolutely but stating that these immigrant camps are like forced labor camps is deliberately misleading and just flat out wro…

What is the difference in real terms between the border camps and forced labour camps? The labour? Taking bets that these camps introduce forced labour like the Nazi camps did. Odds stop at the decade. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac...

One is the result of excess immigration - where immigrants fleeing their countries come to hope for a better life in the EU or US. Immigrants are eventually granted asylum or are turned away.

Forced labor camps are created through force or threat of force and can detain people for decades with no recourse.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#442

Post by dumb1224 »

iliveinchina wrote: post #422
dumb1224 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to agree with you but I too am a bit out of touch (all the information is from friends). I don't like to defend the central gov but there is too much smoke and mirror to see through things. A lot of press reports genuine issues about China but also a mix of unverifiable information. I believe the local governance is actually improving. At central level it might be a very different story. However that said some…

There is of course a variety of opinions across any demographic. My impression is that, aside from people who've studied abroad, Chinese youth today are more conservative and nationalistic than their elders. They've been fed only on a diet of domestic media with external news censored and have grown up only seeing their standards of living rapidly improving with China taking a more central role on the world stage. Th…

I agree with you. However Xi is only one person, there is much larger power structure behind him. And you are absolutely right, Jiang and Deng have much more experience with the west and 'modern' at their times. As for the younger generation I couldn't really blame them; the ones who are interested in the outside world already did so. I believe there are substantial proportions of youth who have a balanced world-view. But given the education structure and absolute large population base you won't see them represented. I couldn't give much credit for chinese students abroad, since large part of them are quite privileged and ignorant(depends on how they were brought up), the rest were the poorer, sponsored students, they would naturally be very nationalistic.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#443

Post by netsharc »

trasz wrote: post #423
netsharc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the Great Firewall recognizes VPN packets and can decide to drop them, so you might not even be able to complete a login with the VPN server...

Perhaps it can, but it doesn't. Lot of people use VPNs in China.

"It depends". Last year in September they had the 70th anniversary of Communist Rule, and a few weeks before that connecting to VPN was a pain. For some reason there's also less restrictions e.g. if you're close to an airport, WhatsApp would work.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#444

Post by bognition »

tekknik wrote: post #428
bobbyz wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not past sins, its past sins that have yet to be atoned for. Conditions for Native Americans are still inexcusable up to this day.

So present day americans need to pay for the sins of our fathers so to speak? Or to put it another way, we present day americans had no say in the decision but we must pay for the past americans decisions?

No we aren’t guilty for the sins of our parents but if we decide to ignore the ongoing injustice then we become complicit.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#445

Post by marksbrown »

trasz wrote: post #425
marksbrown wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So China has a free press now to find such proof! How silly of us. This myopic, appeasement view of an authoritarian regime has been shown time and again through our history to not end well.

So what you are saying is that if there's no free press, it's a valid reasoning to just invent things out of thin air and assume they are true, like in this case with "forced labor".

There's no free press in China, not elsewhere dear.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#446

Post by cma »

adventured wrote: post #256
cma wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is essentially part of OPEC now already. They legally can't be without going through congress, so they just called it OPEC+.

In OPEC+, the plus is for Russia, not the US. Russia has been directly coordinating with OPEC on market supply matters. The US oil producers don't coordinate well with OPEC. It has been an ongoing problem that OPEC has been endlessly complaining about for many years.

Ah, I guess I misread that. Some article talked about how we were able to coordinate on the reduction even though congress had some moratorium on negotiating with OPEC, and I thought it was through that technicality and that OPEC+ was created specifically to work around it.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#447

Post by dagenleg »

notaround1111 wrote: post #296
dagenleg wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PLA is comprised of mostly only-sons and hasn't been deployed in a real conflict. Sorry, did you forget the Korean war? Sure, Sino-Indian and Sino-Vietnamese wars were much smaller by comparison, but also very real conflicts.

Fighting an adversary like the PLA in occupied areas like Tibet, Xinjiang, HK and maybe Taiwan someday plays to the strengths of the US armed forces. It would be an embarrassing disaster for the PRC that would very likely lead to a collapse of the party and force them into some type of hermit kingdom, like NK. The US has been in near constant war for almost 100 years, having big parades with uniforms doesn't make up…

A thing of note - this "near constant war" has always been fought against weaker nations, which the US military industrial complex has been able to outproduce utterly. China is a completely different kind of adversary and has historically proved that it can match the US - again I refer you to the Korean war, where China was able to check and drive back the US forces.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#448

Post by nate_meurer »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #369
nate_meurer wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect, you've moved the goalposts so that all prison systems across the world count as "concentration camps". Now you can use your fallacy to defend China's worst human rights abuses from any and all criticism, because you can claim that anyone's judgement is tainted by the mere existence of their own country's "concentration camp" prison system. > All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison syste…

Prison reform has been talked about for decades, there has supposedly been progress, but it hasn’t looked too promising in the data: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_... I think we both agree that the US would have better standing on this issue if we didn’t have the highest per capita imprisonment. China would almost have to 10x their imprisonment rates to overtake us... Sorry to make you a…

You're completely missing the point. Yes, the American criminal justice system needs a lot more reform, and yes progress on civil rights issues is painfully slow. No shit, congratulations for noticing.

There are millions of people in this world who care deeply about humans rights, and these people are the only reason any progress is ever made, whether in America or China or anywhere else. Do you really think you're helping by shitting on them because the progress hasn't yet achieved your satisfaction?

If I may offer a suggestion, either do something to join the fight, or shut the fuck up about it.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#449

Post by croes »

apatters wrote: post #429
croes wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not there really were so many dead children or not does not change anything in Albright's statement. If it serves the goals of the USA, they are willing to let 500.000 children die.

OK. But if you believed that lie, how many other lies do you believe?

Which lie? I refer only to her statement, which illustrates her character and that of the USA. The correct answer from her would have been, "it's not 500,000, but every dead child is one too many". They didn't care about 500.000 dead Iraqi children, period. If the children really died, is important to the children and their families not for the characterization.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#450

Post by croes »

bobbyz wrote: post #377
croes wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that most of the Europeans didn't have a problem with Germany's antisemitism. What do you think why germany had such a big jewish community and culture in the first place? Because they were driven out of the other countries and could live freely in Germany. But also in Germany the hate finally prevailed.

Be real. They don't/didn't

Antisemitism was/is widespread in Europe. Germany was long time a safe haven for the Jews. What do you think, why german and jiddish share so many words and similarities?
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