Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#951

Post by Daub » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 12:33 AM UTC

Double_a_92 wrote: post #420

Daub wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aka do a Blender. Blender has gained momentum by getting things right, not adding features nobody wants, or Blender sidegigs. There is a parsimoniousness about Blender that is really quite incredible. I have rarely used an app that has so successfully resisted feature-creep and bloat. E.g. unlike almost all other 3D apps, it has no radial array tool or feature. Why not? Because you can cook your own using a simple…

Isn't the screw modifier a similar thing? Also it seems quit full fledged to me tbh. And for everything else there are plugins.

Screw modifier is similar, but not the best route for a radial array.

I not knocking blender. I love its austere design philosophy. The add-ons are a case in point. Some very important functionality is not loaded by default (e.g. loop tools and copy attributes). But the devs seem to be saying, 'if we can live without something in the default load, then we should'. Huge difference to bloatware like 3DS Max.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#952

Post by RandomBacon » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 1:39 AM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #660

panpanna wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. Not anymore! To be consistent with their business screw ups, they addressed this with the latest updates. Now the mobile app a mess like the rest of Mozilla.

This was not a useful comment. How is it a mess? What changed?

Something I just noticed (in addition to the complaints of other users which I also share):

Javascript bookmarklets no longer work.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#953

Post by boomboomsubban » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 1:43 AM UTC

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #866

Jonnax wrote: post #13

There's a quote from the CEO saying that they looked at the market and felt like they were being underpaid. And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. Firefox has a problem. It gets most of its revenue from Google. They need a different revenue stream but their ideas haven't worked. Their executives are clearly failures. But with such high pay, they're cashing out. Buying themsel…

> There's a quote from the CEO saying that they looked at the market and felt like they were being underpaid. > And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. To give context, Baker's annual salary is $2.5 million.

Source? The documents listing her pay come from before she was CEO, and most of the pay was from a bonus.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#954

Post by boomboomsubban » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 1:46 AM UTC

sk2020 wrote: post #763

rvz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't that pretty much admitting that they're on a sinking ship? Yes. They are admitting they are solely reliant on Google's money. Given that Google Chrome is a direct competitor to Firefox and has gained more market share, Google can justify to either reduce spend or stop paying for being the default search engine in Firefox due to its shrinking market share and instead pay more for Apple Safari as the default in…

Firefox isn't a direct competitor to Chrome. It's Google's hedge against an anti-trust lawsuit. When you see Mozilla as a Big Tech trust-fund baby struggling with cognitive dissonance, then their behavior makes sense.

If you look at the history of Mozilla's revenue, this conspiracy is ridiculous. Why would Yahoo compete over the Firefox contract if they serve as a hedge against a lawsuit?

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#955

Post by dblohm7 » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #894

gok wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My compensation is primarily in ownership and stock This would be impossible for Mozilla's structure

I'm certainly curious as to why, they have a board and shareholders, no? Regardless, it changes little about my point. I'm not saying a CEO shouldn't earn a nice salary, but to repeatedly take raises during a downturn, a downturn so severe you had to completely gut projects, is gross.

The Mozilla Foundation is the sole shareholder of the Mozilla Corporation.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#956

Post by dblohm7 » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

jbay808 wrote: post #944

sambe wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim was not that they can't reduce but that an 80% discount was too much to ask of people (and thus also their families). I don't think anyone at any pay level would be happy being paid 20% of similar roles. Perhaps the problem was putting people in these roles in the first place that would accept 20% of market rate. Raising their pay subsequently doesn't make them better at their job! The quote is not really c…

When I make this argument to tech companies in Vancouver (where typically compensation is an 80% discount from right across the border in Seattle), the response is usually that I can move if I want to. Couldn't she just have gone and become CEO at a different company if she wanted to make more, like the rest of us do?

How hard will it be to find a replacement who will be willing to make 80% less?

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#957

Post by dang » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

sam_goody wrote: post #564

They had a GREAT CEO. Brendan Eich. He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competing against Google, Apple, and his own FF) and made it a contender. But, he wasn't woke enough. And for that, everyone will now pay dearly. I daresay, learning that someone else is entitled to a competing view is difficult. Allowing others to have a view other tha…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24564014.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#958

Post by dang » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:19 AM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #575

> Out of curiosity, do you know of any companies in your field where the CEO believes you personally don't deserve rights? Would you work for that company? Tim Cook supports gun control. I wouldn't work for Apple, but the CEO's position on gun control isn't part of that decision.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24565466.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#959

Post by dblohm7 » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #933

bambax wrote: post #253

> Mobile browsing numbers are bleak: Firefox barely exists on phones, with a market share of less than half a percent. This is baffling given that mobile Firefox has a rare feature for a mobile browser: it's able to install extensions and so can block ads. This is true, and indeed very strange. I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. So Mozilla's problems aren't only technical, there's also a question of market aw…

One thing I don't understand is how Firefox doesn't have a VR browser in Windows, but it has one on Oculus.

There was one for Windows that was Servo-based. But both the Android and Windows projects were shut down by the layoffs.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#960

Post by jdashg » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #112

twblalock wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mozilla execs could all make more money at FAANG companies just down the road from Mozilla HQ. If they left, it would probably be pretty hard to replace them with anyone capable of saving Firefox who would settle for less. The same is true for most of the engineers at Mozilla. They could go to FAANGs and increase their compensation quite a bit. So while I agree that the leadership has been bad, executive pay was…

> The Mozilla execs could all make more money at FAANG companies just down the road from Mozilla HQ. I mean, really? After their record of poor performance at Mozilla? > Hiring leaders who could make better decisions certainly won't be any cheaper. It's been blindly obvious for years what they should do, but let's state it again: (1) Build up a fund instead of throwing away the money, so they can be financially indep…

Fortunately, Mozilla has been doing #1 for years, as they mention in their public financial statements.

#2 is a matter of opinion in a couple ways. Work on the browser for the betterment of users has never stopped. Intent has always been there, but we can debate quality of plan and execution.

Worth mentioning is how hard it is to rate performance given lack of counterfactuals. Is there even any golden path of success in all of the solution space? All we know is that what was tried hasn't worked.