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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#431

Post by pldr1234 »

iliveinchina wrote: post #131

Tibetan history, like Chinese history, is complicated. On the subject of Tibetan assimilation: what most people think of Tibet - that is the current Tibetan autonomous region of the PRC - is actually only about 1/3 of what many Tibetans would call "Tibet." What is culturally and ethnically Tibetan actually stretches across Qinghai province, as well as large swaths of Sichuan, and part of Yunnan and Gansu. If you go t…

Regional designations are complicated, but there is nothing complicated about passing judgment over the atrocities being perpetrated today by the CCP.

I'm simply glad that there's finally cohesion by many leaders across the world in urging that Beijing be completely stripped of the prestige of hosting the upcoming Winter Olympics.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#432

Post by kazinator »

tekknik wrote: post #428
bobbyz wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not past sins, its past sins that have yet to be atoned for. Conditions for Native Americans are still inexcusable up to this day.

So present day americans need to pay for the sins of our fathers so to speak? Or to put it another way, we present day americans had no say in the decision but we must pay for the past americans decisions?

The concept is valid.

Suppose someone's great grandfather stole from my great grandfather something I was supposed to inherit. They inherited it instead.

It remains stolen property that belongs to me.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#433

Post by edwinyzh »

BowBun wrote: post #43

I'm seeing a lot of flagged comments and repeated commenters seeming to exaggerate viewpoints and stir up discord in this thread. I'm not always on the 'china bad' train but it seems like their social engineering efforts have reached HN. Readers, please double-check your sources and form your own opinions beyond repeating what you read in an HN thread.

For the record, I'm a pro-CCP Chinese who turned from a CCP hater. I hated it because I was young, saw some bad things happened in the past, and read too much biased, anti-CCP opinions.

I've become an advocate of CCP after I learned some history, after having a deeper and broader understanding of all the things, after seeing what happened in the past ten, especially in the past 2 years, and so on.

You can check my HN profile and can easily tell that I'm not pretend to be, but is actually independent of CCP.

My father is a member of CCP though. Before my age of 30 or so, the one thing that I do the most when I'm home is to argue with him about the badness of CCP.

I'm older now, and it turned out that he's opinion was right, although he wasn't able to convince me - I came to my conclusion on my own, by self-thinking, reading, and observing.

I'm not saying that CCP is perfect, I still hate the Great firewall, but it's a complex issue that I'm not going to expand on it here.

Anyone who's with an open mind and is curious about my change (I know a lot of people changed like me), feel free to ask any question.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#434

Post by yters »

coldtea wrote: post #393
yters wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you are fine with allowing all the human atrocities by CCP because of what usa has done in the past? i cannot make heads or tails of this perspective as one of jewish descent, i am glad usa denounced the holocaust during ww2, and didn't use its past injustices as an excuse to remain silent

> so you are fine with allowing all the human atrocities by CCP because of what usa has done in the past? i cannot make heads or tails of this perspective Let me reverse the question: are you fine with selective-outrage against all the human atrocities by CCP be used as a tool for foreign policy to further interests/help in new attrocities? At the same time when those using those (to help their policies) have commite…

and do you think it was good the usa did so little about the holocaust?

there are a number of atrocities around the world today, but nothing approaches the scale of the ccp

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#435

Post by sitkack »

yowlingcat wrote: post #396
sitkack wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.masterresource.org/carter-jimmy/jimmy-carter-was... https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/03/energy-independence-a-s...

Thanks for the context. I think the second one explains what you're trying to say better. I think one can agree with the spirit of Carter's message while remaining skeptical of how practically it's stood the test of time. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, doesn't the last line of your second article seems to agree with GP's point? Can you describe what you're trying to say in more detail?

Those words would be that Carter was a leader who was looking for the American people. Regan reversed Carter's actions, got us more dependent on foreign oil, deepened our relationship with the Saudis. Rolled back efficiency standards and as a show of arrogant bravado, removed the solar panels that Carter had installed on the Whitehouse. Not sure what Bush the GP was referring to, but what kind of revisionism claims that either Bush moved us towards energy independence.

It is important to recognize how we got into this mess and who the literal and figurative actors are.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#436

Post by dang »

actuator wrote: post #419
dang wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what we want here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I apologize about the structure of my last statement, it came out like that because of the tone of the parent comment and the constant whataboutism and general misinformation(like "valid old claims") we see in these threads. It gets tiring after a while. I don't understand why my other comment down the thread was flagged by you though.

Do you mean https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24563331? For two reasons: because it perpetuated the flamewar, and because 'whataboutism' breaks the site guideline against name-calling (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...).

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#437

Post by _4jlx »

jariel wrote: post #379
bobbyz wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not addressing the point about immigration laws not being universally recognized as moral and just. What about child migrants? You're meaning to tell me that its morally just to intern preteens because they broke your immigration law? To force children to appear before a judge that are so young that they have to draw a cross as their signature? What's grosser here?

These moral equivalence arguments are futile. I addressed the issue, not only that, the concern about the 'moral universality' of the border laws isn't very relevant. We put people in prison for 10 years for stealing cars, and there is no 'universal moral agreement' on the issue. Migrants are not even being held against their will - they can leave in about 72 hours by filing paperwork. They have knowingly entered the…

First of all, you're looking for the word 'equivalent', not corollary. Secondly, a talented lawyer could make a convincing legal argument for anything. The holocaust was legal. So really, the morality of the act is everything. Sure in practice, children are supposed to be held for 72 hours, but in reality it can be much longer. I'm not sure if I'm addressing your claims because you're using a bunch of big words, and I'm not sure if you're trying to say what they actually mean, so thats what I got.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#438

Post by bobbyz »

dang wrote: post #416
bobbyz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah! How rude of you to shatter their fanciful delusions of a people they can't relate to with those people's actual opinions!

You can't vandalize HN threads like this, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. If you know more about a topic, that's great, but the thing to do is share some of what you know so that people can learn. Flaming aggression doesn't help anyone and only hurts the cause you're trying to stand up for. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24563326 also. I don't mean to pick on you person…

Sorry, my han supremacy leaked through.

I would have just spray-painted the han supremacy equivalent of a swastika onto a few walls, but there's no such thing. No Chinese KKK to join either. We really are lagging behind the west!

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#439

Post by dang »

bobbyz wrote: post #438
dang wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't vandalize HN threads like this, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. If you know more about a topic, that's great, but the thing to do is share some of what you know so that people can learn. Flaming aggression doesn't help anyone and only hurts the cause you're trying to stand up for. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24563326 also. I don't mean to pick on you person…

Sorry, my han supremacy leaked through. I would have just spray-painted the han supremacy equivalent of a swastika onto a few walls, but there's no such thing. No Chinese KKK to join either. We really are lagging behind the west!

I'm trying to help you use HN as intended. If you can't or don't want to do that, we're going to have to ban you. I'd rather not do that, so would you please help us out and follow HN's rules? It is in your interest to do so, because your current comments are unfortunately just reinforcing the very prejudice you're hurt and outraged by. That's an important reason why you shouldn't be commenting like this. It contributes to hurting what you mean to defend.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#440

Post by bobbyz »

dang wrote: post #439
bobbyz wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, my han supremacy leaked through. I would have just spray-painted the han supremacy equivalent of a swastika onto a few walls, but there's no such thing. No Chinese KKK to join either. We really are lagging behind the west!

I'm trying to help you use HN as intended. If you can't or don't want to do that, we're going to have to ban you. I'd rather not do that, so would you please help us out and follow HN's rules? It is in your interest to do so, because your current comments are unfortunately just reinforcing the very prejudice you're hurt and outraged by. That's an important reason why you shouldn't be commenting like this. It contribu…

This comment is not going to look great when/if the term 'Han Supremacy' becomes recognized as hate speech
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