Earlier quoted context omitted.
Zenz extrapolated based on Food Subsidies. There are NO FACTS on number or what is done there. Go look at Grayzone on the coverage on Zenz. What motivation would they have to make China look better. I could claim people are learning mandarin there.
As you can find in one of his articles, he deducted his findings from from job descriptions and articles in newspapers (Renminribao, Xinhua): Xinjiang's rapidly evolving security state, Zenz et al., 2017 http://www.academia.edu/download/52174157/Xinjiangs_Rapidly_...
China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
381–390 of 456 posts
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, life would be just peachy if half of Europe lived under the Germans or the Ottoman Empire. What? Why do people from large countries act like no one else exists? Would you like to live in a country run by someone who forces their language and culture on you?
What makes you think the Central Powers would have permanently occupied the nations it defeated when the Allied Powers did not? What makes you think Imperial Germany would have forced its language and culture on e.g. France when it would have been happy to simply install a friendly government? WWI was not WWII. There was nothing uniquely evil about the Central Powers.
All of these people didn't work towards independence by accident. There were good reasons to, depending on whose empire you lived in, the ruling group was given preferential treatment, or maybe the minorities would be penalized for using their own language. Higher education and government services would often be provided exclusively in the ruling nation's language.
>WWI was not WWII. There was nothing uniquely evil about the Central Powers.
The Armenian genocide sounds bad enough to me.
And of course these things happened even in the Entente empires, it's just easier to declare independence from an empire that just lost and can't do anything about it.
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two points. First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him. Second, supporting current regime in Saudi Arabia sounds barbaric and morally reprehensible — as long as you don't find out who's their internal opposition is. Surprise: it's not freedom-loving democratic westernised students. It's even more radical and aggress…
> First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him. Which didn't prevent them spawning, and continuing support of hundred others like him. What you say is conflating with something like "If USA took down NSDAP, Germans would still burn Jews, and even more of them." It is infuriating. US must stop supporting Sauds, end of…
But this is not true, whereas the facts I started about internal opposition Saudis face are.
> US must stop supporting Sauds, end of the story.
This would make the world a worse place and lead to a lot of death and suffering, compared to the future where US would still support them. How can you justify such a thing?
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
>will eventually run out of cheap rural labor Premier Li KeQiang revealed this year over 600m Chinese still live on 1000RMB a month. China will _never_ run out of cheap labour. The reality is, even at the height of Chinese export economy 10 years ago, manufacturing "only" employed ~400M workers. China has more cheap work force than _global_ demand. These poverty alleviation / sinicization programs are just that. They…
The margins are razor thin and cheap is relative. Chinese manufacturers are used to paying close to nothing and now there is wage pressure. https://www.marketplace.org/2018/12/04/what-worries-chinas-m... Also, in textile manufacturing for example you can see that firms are already moving away from China to places like Bangladesh.. unless they are using Uyghur labor. Regarding the rural population - Chinese agricultur…
As for work force, China has abundance of cheap labour that's still regionally competitive. Official CCP poverty definition (lower than world bank) is 250RMB/month. Incidentally why Xi's poverty alleviation by 2020 is a meme. There's still 600M Chinese who'll work for 250-1000RMB. That's still multiple medium sized countries worth of "close to nothing" tier labour, competitive from Bangladesh to Vietnam. Real problem is social disruption from outsourcing from coastal to interior provinces, China dealing with coastal rust belt is going to be interesting. Hence new duo circulation / domestic consumption strategy which may or may not pan out.
>unless they are using Uyghur labor
Vocational training covers many sectors not just textiles, and no report alleges these are cheap / unpaid positions, merely forced. Lowest wage for out of province contracts works out to be 2000RMB with state subsidies to companies. Obviously not sustainable for 600M+ Han, but can swing it for "only" 11M Uyghurs because underlying concern is security not cheap labour. I see it like TSA funding, it doesn't make economic sense on it's own, at best it stops a few attacks, at worst it's wasted security theatre. It's "cheap labour" in the sense that state provides subsidies for companies taking on Uyghur workers, but ultimately not sustainable or efficient use of resources. Frame another way, it's also similar to US agriculture industrial policy, subsidize farmers because it makes political sense foremost and some economic sense in that it provides domestic industries some protectionist barriers even though on net it's bad use of resources.
>Chinese ag
They're actually moving towards US style industrial farms for efficiency and improved food security. Rural collectives from land reform legacy is being phased out for some sort of share system with prospectvie big state Ag companies. Will definitely cause social disruption but also long overdue. IMO previous reluctance probably because land reform central to CCP origin story, pretty embarrassing that replacement for CCP core policy = more capitalism.
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#385The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…
Did you know that the Sioux are actively protesting in South Dakota right now, for the very thing that you are preaching here?
Are you going to even lift a finger to support them? I doubt it. Hence, you’re just being a hypocrite
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US may not need to land a force there, just ensure that China can't. Make sure Taiwan has enough missiles, subs, mines, etc to repel any PLA landing force, making it prohibitively expensive and embarrassing for China to attempt.
That's true. I honestly think an out and out invasion of Taiwan is exceedingly unlikely, when the CCP has the latitude to exert decades of concentrate soft power to render Taiwan a functional vassal long before Chinese boots hit the ground.
And they were until Xi made himself dictator for life. Under Xi it seems like the CCP has become unecessarily less rational and more insecure.
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see this a lot. There's a loss of confidence in the West, where people feel like you can't call out immoral behavior unless it's committed by another westerner or a western nation. This serves absolutely no one well. The fact that a country or civilization has past sins should not be a disqualification from taking a moral stand in the present. Some form of mild hypocrisy is vastly preferable to sitting silent while…
The problem is not past sins, its past sins that have yet to be atoned for. Conditions for Native Americans are still inexcusable up to this day.
Hypocrisy is rarely a substantive counterargument. It's much more often whataboutism.
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
Jimmy Carter would like a word with you.
What would those words be?
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is not past sins, its past sins that have yet to be atoned for. Conditions for Native Americans are still inexcusable up to this day.
That is true, but all that means is that we have two problems, not that the criticism is wrong. Hypocrisy is rarely a substantive counterargument. It's much more often whataboutism.
Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is true, but all that means is that we have two problems, not that the criticism is wrong. Hypocrisy is rarely a substantive counterargument. It's much more often whataboutism.
Okay, but in this case I'm not saying there's whataboutism in your argument. The point I'm trying to make is that if you're powerful enough, you can make human rights abuses and then get away with it scot-free and that America helped set this precedent.
Human rights are themselves a fairly recent idea. I can't think of a single powerful country/empire that hasn't committed them to some degree. And things were much worse in the past.