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Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

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Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#731

Post by room500 »

TheOperator wrote: post #593
rattray wrote: post #527

This is a pretty unfair article. The author presents firefox market share (a relative term) on one axis and CEO pay (an absolute term) on the other. The sad reality is that the CEO pay should be a relative metric to tech companies of similar size in the bay area, where Mozilla is based. Or at least US tech companies of similar scale. As the internet has enveloped the globe in the last 10 years, a huge amount of money…

Pay should be relative to your value to the company and the CEO is not providing said value. You are allowed to run a company that gasp drives down average CEO pay instead of herding your pay brackets.

I disagree. Pay should be relative to the market rate for their skills - capped at your value to the company.

If a company needs to buy some widget - and this widget is worth $100 to the company - the company would be foolhardy to ignore the market and pay $100. Instead, the company should be looking at different suppliers and choosing one with the best quality, price, etc. If there is a lot of supply, it might be able to get the widget for $10. If the supply is limited, it might be forced to spend $90. In both cases though, the value to the company is $100.

If this CEO is not performing adequately in his role, then he should be fired. Full stop. But bringing his pay into the picture (which isn't all that much higher than high-level employees at FAANG) is just trying to incite anger in the mob.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#732

Post by [deleted] »

Jonnax wrote: post #13

There's a quote from the CEO saying that they looked at the market and felt like they were being underpaid. And they can't reduce their salary now because it'd be unfair on their families. Firefox has a problem. It gets most of its revenue from Google. They need a different revenue stream but their ideas haven't worked. Their executives are clearly failures. But with such high pay, they're cashing out. Buying themsel…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#733

Post by 6510 »

roenxi wrote: post #641
ahelwer wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, man. It's easy to get all abstract with phrases like "support a cause" but we live in a concrete world. Mozilla employs a lot of gay people. Prop 8 was viciously homophobic, both in concept and especially in execution of its campaign. How would you feel going to work knowing your boss's boss thinks you don't deserve rights?

If I earn $100,000 am I allowed to ask for people advocating for tax increases to be ejected from the company for being wealthophobes? That isn't as idle a question as you might think on first glance. Denying someone marriage rights is waaay down the list of ways voters can screw each other over through government policy. Most high income earners are in companies with co-workers who literally argue that they should b…

I one time notice that strict job descriptions are incredibly rare. I've only really seen them on factory floors. For laughs I ask a bunch of people in the same function to describe their job. Having asked this a few times it was fun to chat about how different their idea was from their colleagues. Some of them were surprisingly clueless. They thought their job was the stuff that currently consumed most of their time.

I think in programming we've learned (the hard way) that fuzzy input should be rejected. Stuff should do exactly what it says on the can. No mather how sophisticated, if a date object returns political opinion they are not parsed.

Perhaps one day we can do modular job descriptions or functional employment. Accurate task descriptions with actual specs. Well formed execution and response text. The most professional people I've worked with were already strict about what everyone's job was.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#734

Post by TheRealPomax »

Let's not gaslight, though: a full-time staffer with a $100k salary costs a company $200k because of insurance, pension, benefits, etc. so yeah, that CEO's salary could pay for anywhere up to 10 people... but those 10 people make literally no difference when the problems are so vast that the only way to even get to "very slowly bleeding dry" levels not not succeeding requires firing over 200 people.

The CEO's salary is too high, but also pretty much irrelevant.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#735

Post by mattl »

sam_goody wrote: post #564

They had a GREAT CEO. Brendan Eich. He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competing against Google, Apple, and his own FF) and made it a contender. But, he wasn't woke enough. And for that, everyone will now pay dearly. I daresay, learning that someone else is entitled to a competing view is difficult. Allowing others to have a view other tha…

He was the CEO for 11 days, I don't think we can say he was a great CEO of Mozilla.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#736

Post by conradfr »

unhammer wrote: post #506
panpanna wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. Not anymore! To be consistent with their business screw ups, they addressed this with the latest updates. Now the mobile app a mess like the rest of Mozilla.

Try the very latest release (81). I wrote earlier[0] that FF79 was too slow to start, buggy on tab switches, and missing most recent sites on the new tab. That's all been fixed as of FF81 as far as I can see. I also really like the new swipe-url-to-switch-tabs feature =D [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24280554

The last update seems to have added yet another unnecessary click to access a pinned site (whatever it's called).

It used to be "click on the url bar -> click big site preview", now it's "click on the tab counter -> click the plus icon -> click to dismiss some overlay -> click small site icon".

Thanks Mozilla, I hate it.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#737

Post by latexmex »

sam_goody wrote: post #564

They had a GREAT CEO. Brendan Eich. He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competing against Google, Apple, and his own FF) and made it a contender. But, he wasn't woke enough. And for that, everyone will now pay dearly. I daresay, learning that someone else is entitled to a competing view is difficult. Allowing others to have a view other tha…

[flagged]

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#738

Post by throw_m239339 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #485
throw_m239339 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Mozilla execs could all make more money at FAANG companies just down the road from Mozilla HQ. If they left, it would probably be pretty hard to replace them with anyone capable of saving Firefox who would settle for less. Eich. But you'll have to kick out the idpol activists still left at Mozilla, the people who ditched FirefoxOS and contributed to the destruction of Firefox.

Why are you so sure that a) Eich would do the job for less, or that b) he'd be able to single-handedly defeat Google on a budget. Just because someone opposes gay marriage for religious reasons doesn't make them a superhero or saint. Is Brave browser doing better than Firefox with his miraculous help? Seems like the people angry about this political issue are one key factor in us heading towards an internet monocultu…

> Why are you so sure that a) Eich would do the job for less, or that b) he'd be able to single-handedly defeat Google on a budget.

a) Eich publicly called out Mozilla's current CEO compensation. b) well the current CEO isn't doing that either.

> Just because someone opposes gay marriage for religious reasons doesn't make them a superhero or saint. Is Brave browser doing better than Firefox with his miraculous help?

Exactly, it had nothing to do with anything but people who wanted Eich's head. The same people that are now sinking Mozilla because they have no vision for the company, just virtue signalling.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#739

Post by jacquesm »

indymike wrote: post #672
jacquesm wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a problem that she is both on the board and CEO, which effectively makes her impossible to hold to account unless the board members that want her out would resign if she does not want to make way. That would be a major statement and would put the remaining board members on notice. The board typically does not get compensated the way the CEO does so they are usually not in a position to 'suck it dry', on top of…

One of the best and hardest things to do for anything with a board of directors is to establish that EVERY BOARD MEETING starts with a vote on one simple question: "Shall the CEO/Executive Director be retained?" Every company, not for profit or even tiny club that makes this the big question performs it's mission well. Those that don't, well, you get a lot more politics.

I love that idea, it formalizes the board taking responsibility for the continued performance of the CEO, and it may also warn a CEO that the board that hired them is about to flip before it is too late.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#740

Post by throwaway2048 »

sam_goody wrote: post #564

They had a GREAT CEO. Brendan Eich. He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competing against Google, Apple, and his own FF) and made it a contender. But, he wasn't woke enough. And for that, everyone will now pay dearly. I daresay, learning that someone else is entitled to a competing view is difficult. Allowing others to have a view other tha…

I think arguing that Brendan Eich was a great CEO is massively overstating things.

A great CEO would have been able to handle the issues he was confronted with.

Just because somebody was ousted in a way you feel was unfair, doesn't make them a great leader.

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