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How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

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Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#181

Post by sidpatil »

amelius wrote: post #102
agumonkey wrote: post #58

I suffered from this in way I can barely explain. Recently I came to a place where I thought that 'if' you live your life like an adventure where anything you do has to be very exciting, than a yes means you really want to do, not just a 'why not' but something that tickles your soul. And a no was the reflection of that, "I could come, and do that, but it will be boring in a way and I'll only be a ghost which would b…

With that attitude, how do you convince yourself to do chores such as cleaning the house, or writing that boring glue-logic that your boss asked you to implement? I think the only way these tasks can be made exciting would be to build a cleaning robot or write a "glue-logic compiler". But these approaches would probably get you divorced or fired.

> But these approaches would probably get you divorced or fired.

Those both sound like great startup ideas to me, honestly. A glue-logic compiler? Sounds like Zapier to me.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#182

Post by waylandsmithers »

I'm curious about what people think of a "second-request" kind of strategy I have at work:

Sometimes when I get asked to do something I feel is unreasonable, unwarranted, or unnecessary (and it's not something like, there's a fire in the conference room and I'm trapped, please help), I'll totally ignore it, but if they ask a second time, I'll just do it.

Very often they either forget, or just do it themselves before coming back, confirming that it was either unnecessary or they didn't need me to do the thing in the first place.

If they do come back, it's easy to come into the plausible deniability and "Oh sorry I forgot! I'm on it." And then maybe guilt them with "I was caught up in ${task that actually is part of my job}."

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#183

Post by necovek »

jasode wrote: post #175
Loughla wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's important to sit down and decide what we want out of life I always get my hair up with this kind of statement. How do your goals look? Because the only goals I have are: a) not be homeless, b) not have my family die, and c) figure out how to have someone give me ten million dollars so I can stop coming to work. People who have specific, 'work-ish' goals in their personal lives sort of weird me out. I don't know…

>How do your goals look? Because the only goals I have are: a) not be homeless, b) not have my family die, and c) [...] >People who have specific, 'work-ish' goals in their personal lives sort of weird me out. I'm genuinely confused as to what actually bothers you about "work-ish" goals. As another example, I used to have a boring (but very high paying) business consulting job. I hated getting on an airplane every si…

Your story gives out a quick and simple alternative: "with a high paying job", I would have expected you to have enough savings to take 12 months off without becoming homeless. Use the first six months to build the knowledge it would take you years on your "free time" instead, then try applying it and earning from it.

If it fails and you need to accumulate more savings, go back to what you know you are good at for another stint before you try again.

IOW, don't just let it happen, but just try doing it instead.

(I fully understand that not everybody is in a position to do this, but you sound like you are.)

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#184

Post by jgwil2 »

pc86 wrote: post #143
column wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what people consider to be “the country of freedom” Yeah, no. It's a country where it is the norm to be fired on the spot and without recourse for something that has nothing to do with your job. Where cops can size any amount of money you have in your car for no reason. It's the motherland of profits and ads over privacy! US tries to sell itself as “the country of freedom” but I believe the world has come well awar…

> it is the norm to be fired on the spot and without recourse for something that has nothing to do with your job You're going to have to prove that it's the norm because it's never happened to me, or anyone I have ever interacted with. In a country of 350 million people you can pull out half a dozen examples of anything. But please point me to a single peer-reviewed study that shows it's normal or expected to be fire…

I don't think the parent means it is the norm for this to happen to most people, but rather that at-will employment[0] is the norm and this is a possibility, however remote, that most people have to reckon with.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#185

Post by spdionis »

sethammons wrote: post #179

Let’s say your problem is time: you agree to too much. I struggle with the balance of helping others and getting my own stuff done. My stuff gets done, but may take longer than I would like. At work yesterday, I was helping some other teams and saw they were going down the wrong path. I had, at this point, already told them I had to stop helping to get my own stuff done. But I couldn’t just let them waste hours doing…

You are effectively "saying no" to your manager. In your estimation helping your colleagues is more impactful to the company than doing your current task.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the attitude. The manager's intention is probably to help you shield yourself from unwanted help requests. But if you actually think you should help that team, then do it!

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#186

Post by jabroni_salad »

partyboat1586 wrote: post #96
GistNoesis wrote: post #40

Often it's closely related to miscommunication between High-Context culture people and Low-Context culture people. A people pleaser usually is from the high context, and implicitly by accepting to help there is an expectation that the person asking is at least just not merely exploiting them for personal gain and at least aiming to increase the collective value. Once you have identified what type of culture someone t…

What are "High-Context culture people and Low-Context culture people"?

One of my go-to examples of high-context is The Wire's "fuck" scene. Two professionals in perfect sync investigate a murder scene. The communications themselves are not very important because they are relying on a high level of context -- they already have familiarity with the case and with each other.

[nsfw] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lElf7D-An8

On the other side of the spectrum, think about any episode of CSI or NCIS where the characters narrate everything they do and think to each other. It's necessary exposition for the viewer, and perhaps in a real-life setting collaborating in this way keeps everybody on the same page. It isn't bad at all, it is just a lower context mode of communicating.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#187

Post by necovek »

markrages wrote: post #172
bumby wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that a statistically valid assumption for reduced risk at the population level?

Do you consider spreading to other more vulnerable people as a bad COVID outcome?

GP comment says "for someone living alone" which I would consider an answer to your question.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#188

Post by momokoko »

The whole make yourself happy first mentality is a bizarre side effect of therapy.

Therapists have one client. Not the client’s family, friends, coworkers, and community. Because of that much of the advice therapist give benefits the client at the expense of everyone else. This creates a toxic environment when you have a large percentage of any group going to therapy and practicing me first techniques.

I wonder if there is a way to align therapist goals with the greater good as opposed to the single client. Much how we have made changes to help doctors care for the long term physical health of a patient over a short term fix.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#190

Post by epicide »

momokoko wrote: post #188

The whole make yourself happy first mentality is a bizarre side effect of therapy. Therapists have one client. Not the client’s family, friends, coworkers, and community. Because of that much of the advice therapist give benefits the client at the expense of everyone else. This creates a toxic environment when you have a large percentage of any group going to therapy and practicing me first techniques. I wonder if th…

Not all therapy works that way.

For a lot of people seeking therapy, their issues do start with a personal sense of lacking. Starting with helping them to love themselves first makes sense.

If someone goes to a therapist with narcissistic tendencies or anger issues, I would expect less of the "me first" approach.

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