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Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

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Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#421

Post by kalleboo »

renewiltord wrote: post #311
sangnoir wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you'll be able to attribute that quote to me. Eich fucked up, and should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other. I have a problem with characterizing Brendan Eich as a bigot for donating to a non-fringe political group. IIRC, the proposition campaign he donated to had close to a 50/50 split in support for/against. Eich's ouster cryst…

Why does the vote percentage matter? 43% of Germans voted for the NSDAP. Doesn't absolve them of their bigotry. If 100% of Americans voted that way that would just make all of them bigoted.

If you have a country where half of the population disagrees with the other half, and each half "cancels" the other and refuses to do business with them, the country will grind to a halt.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#422

Post by slightwinder »

habosa wrote: post #346

So I think we can all agree that Mozilla's path to success is not obvious and running it is strategically harder than running most companies. You have to find a way to make your free product compete with Google / Microsoft without compromising your core values and also paying your bills. I am not defending this CEO's pay but I am just curious: how much do people on HN think the CEO of Mozilla should be paid? It's got…

Actually I think Mozillas path to success is quite obvious, but they never bothered to follow it seriously because of their own hubris.

> how much do people on HN think the CEO of Mozilla should be paid? It's got to be enough to attract someone with extensive management experience at a high-functioning tech company

$20k. And give him a bonus depending on the companies performance. Works in other countries and companies, no reason why it should not work there.

In the first place, that so called "extensive management experience at a high-functioning tech company" should be highly paid is a myth and BS. After a certain point the scale of organisation does not change enough to be more worth. And most work is not done by the CEO anyway.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#423

Post by unishark »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #183
kwanbix wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that they get most of their revenue from Google. The problem is that they have 5% share of the web now.

5% of a few billion users is not nothing. Mostly the decline of Mozilla has little to do with the browser functionality or marketing but with the fact that there are several competing browsers out there that have caught up. E.g. MS ditched IE in favor of Edge. Apple has continued investing in Safari which they also force the usage of exclusively on IOS. And of course Google has similar control point in the form of Ch…

> Their core problem is that their product is a commodity.

Even worse, the cheapest comparable alternatives are free. At least commodities can be sold at the market price if you can't differentiate yours enough.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#424

Post by cskinner »

bawolff wrote: post #163

Another way to look at it: mozilla is a sinking ship. Being a CEO of a shinking ship looks bad on the resume and is high risk for the ceo (reputation wise). High risk jobs should get higher compensation than low risk jobs. I'd certainly argue that for a normal company. For mozilla though, there is a question of why do you even need a CEO? Does Linux have a CEO? I suspect at least some of mozilla's problems is trying…

This would be a reasonable argument if they were trying to attract a CEO to an already sinking ship. Being the one in charge when it starts sinking is a different case.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#425

Post by josalhor »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #320
josalhor wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Gecko doesn't have a chance. I totally believe trying to fight this fact is crying over spilled milk. Microsoft tried. They tried not to lose ground with IE 9. Then again with IE 10. Then with IE 11. Then with Edge. If Microsoft couldn't win and had to accept Blink, Mozilla can't compete. In its current form, Firefox can’t win. And this critique comes from someone who’s main browser is Firefox. Mozilla can’t…

> From a performance standpoint, Firefox is not better. Neither is it worse. Firefox is faster at some problems, Chromium is faster at some others. I don't agree that Gecko/SpiderMonkey are doomed, and they certainly aren't doomed on the grounds of performance. https://arewefastyet.com/

> Neither is it worse.

You are correct. But to be fair, that wasn't my point. My point is that Firefox doesn't work properly on as many web pages as Chrome does. This trend will get worse overtime. Why would an end user choose an alternative that breaks their experience with no perceivable benefit?

And yes, there are privacy benefits, but if the end user doesn’t know/doesn’t care then it isn’t a perceivable benefit.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#426

Post by shrubble »

jacquesm wrote: post #324
stef25 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other Is it ridiculous to suggest we should just ignore what people think and do in their private lives? I both fully support gay marriage and couldn't give a rat's ass about what the maker of my browser thinks about it (Eich donated 1000$ to Prop 8, 12 years ago). The real problem is that you can pay to hav…

It's not about you and me. It is about Eich's ability to effectively lead Mozilla while being on the record about this stance regarding gay marriage. How many of Mozilla's employees are gay and/or in favor of gay marriage? If you alienate roughly 55% (possibly much more) or so of a group you are supposed to lead you have just made your life quite impossible. Eich probably did the right thing to resign, he would have…

Could you tell me please, what is the 'Near East' area that you do business with, and, is there a percentage of the population in that area who hold more extreme views than Eich on this subject?

Would you or have you in the past, had any involvement with say, a company domiciled in Turkey?

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#427

Post by aembleton »

cm2187 wrote: post #187

What triggered this exodus? It's not like firefox is bad or worse in any way. I don't think there is a killer Chrome feature everyone wants either. Or is it just the result of the market share of mobile vs desktop?

Maybe Firefox users are more likely to use an adblocker and prevent reporting to statcounter.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#428

Post by vex »

bambax wrote: post #253

> Mobile browsing numbers are bleak: Firefox barely exists on phones, with a market share of less than half a percent. This is baffling given that mobile Firefox has a rare feature for a mobile browser: it's able to install extensions and so can block ads. This is true, and indeed very strange. I use FF on mobile and it works perfectly. So Mozilla's problems aren't only technical, there's also a question of market aw…

Personally, I use Firefox on PC and would love to use it on my phone.

Literally the only reason I use Chrome instead is because of the flow ui tab switching. I just can't stand the Firefox mobile UI for tab switching. I with there was an extension or something to change it. It's a huge shame.

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#429

Post by londons_explore »

rwmj wrote: post #138
jimnotgym wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to qualify that statement

They only survived at all because they owned a stake in Auto Trader Group which was sold off for £600m, allowing their non-profit parent to continue operating. Since then they are just about breaking even with subscriptions. They also (very controversially) employ many unpaid interns to do journalist jobs.

Lots of industries employ lots of unpaid interns. Journalism, Acting, Museums, Charities, Sports teams, Political parties, etc.

On one hand, if people are happy to do work for free, a company would be stupid not to make use of it. On the other hand, governments should probably outlaw it since it really is just a loophole to pay less than minimum wage. ("Volunteer for 2 years for free, and then we'll give you a minimum wage paid position" = "On average over your career, you get less than minimum wage")

Re: Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay going up

#430

Post by pseudalopex »

scarface74 wrote: post #352
coldtea wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you'll be able to attribute that quote to me. Eich fucked up, and should have realized that you can't be leading a flagship of diversity on the one hand and be a bigot on the other Who asked Mozilla to be a "flagship of diversity"? What we wanted off them, and what their mission statement was, is a FOSS browser that supported the open web. Plus, one can be/believe whatever on their personal life, as l…

Let’s say that I’m a top notch software engineer working at Mozilla being paid half as much as I could be making at any other Big Tech company because I believe in the mission. Would I believe in the mission if my leadership opposed my fundamental right to be with the person I loved or would I go to one of the other tech companies that are always screaming diversity and pay more? What side of the fence do you think E…

Eich claimed he supported equal rights except for marriage.
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