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Tables: Tracking work for teams

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Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#341

Post by ako »

catmanjan wrote: post #311
sixdimensional wrote: post #263

Just to be fair, Microsoft also recently re-launched a tuned-up version of Sharepoint Lists, now just called "Lists" [1] which is in the same space. It took something like AirTable to wake the sleeping giants, that people wanted a low-code tabular data editor and storage engine, that wasn't really a spreadsheet. You know.. like FileMaker or MS Access. I guess this goes to show something - I have thought for many, man…

>I think we are crawling towards a future of low/no-code Friendly reminder that low/no-code is just newspeak for "COTS"

With low code you're still programming, just not by writing code but visually defining your program. it's more like 4GL and RAD of the 90's.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#342

Post by fearface »

haltingproblem wrote: post #328
crazygringo wrote: post #193

As a product, this looks super-cool. However, I've got to be honest: while I'd play around with it while it's part of Area 120, there's no way I'd use it in a business until it officially became part of G Suite, as a core service . If Keep and Tasks are core services, then this needs to be too. That becomes a guarantee that it'll stick around basically forever. So it's very exciting to see Google launch something lik…

Google's internal politics and business goals are well aligned for their employees . Adsense/Adwords spews tens of billions of dollars in profits every year. Google's political economy incentivizes groups to build new products not for their revenue streams but to claim larger bonuses of the ad-revenue pie. The users who buy into these "new" products are just cannon fodder in that game. Remember Google+? Vic Gundotra…

Which inferior product are you referring too?

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#343

Post by sjg007 »

skaur wrote: post #301
sjg007 wrote: post #255

Looking at 120 projects has anyone used or been interviewed on the https://byteboard.dev/ platform? It sounds interesting and I was wondering what people thought about it and how it works out in practice.

hello! I'm the GM on Byteboard. You can check out some candidate's take on the interview here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sargunkaur_diversityintech-hi... . We've been actively working with many different companies (Betterment, Lyft, Figma, Dropbox) who have used Byteboard to ensure a more practical interview that is more relevant to the job. We have a candidate NPS of 4.1 / 5 which we are really proud of. :) You…

Thanks for your reply. Does Google use your platform? It seems quite progressive in this space.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#344

Post by prlambert »

someone7x wrote: post #97
prlambert wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclosure I work at Google Area 120 and would be partly responsible for this type of decision] This is a really helpful comment and I like the nod to transparency. Thank you! Not sure we could get quite so concrete publicly (there are lots of unknowns and wouldn't want to make commitments we can't keep), but aligning goals between the business, team, and users/customers is a great idea and something we can improve…

Are all these comments about the near and inevitable death of your new product at all soul-crushing? I'm a stranger on the internet and even I can feel the burn. Good luck.

No, you get a thick skin pretty quickly as a Google PM (and come to think of it as a Twitter PM too, my former job). Constructive comments are helpful and even the raw frustration I know is coming from a genuine place. Having your tools disappear sucks. I feel that too.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#345

Post by janlukacs »

daltonlp wrote: post #291
janlukacs wrote: post #267

A couple of years ago Asana stole our slogan, now Google. For the record, https://www.paymoapp.com (work management) was the first to use Work better, together. Really annoying that they don't do at least a bit of research.

Are you sure? It looks you started using to this slogan in 2019. Prior to that, it was "Work Happy": https://web.archive.org/web/20181116030147/https://www.paymo... But there was at least one other business using "Work better together" in 2017: https://web.archive.org/web/20170515171057/https://projectin...

You are right, we started using it in 2019. From what I know none of the apps in our space had this slogan when we decided to use it and we did quite a lot of research, but to be fair I did not know about the existence of Project Insight in 2017.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#346

Post by carliny »

crazygringo wrote: post #193

As a product, this looks super-cool. However, I've got to be honest: while I'd play around with it while it's part of Area 120, there's no way I'd use it in a business until it officially became part of G Suite, as a core service . If Keep and Tasks are core services, then this needs to be too. That becomes a guarantee that it'll stick around basically forever. So it's very exciting to see Google launch something lik…

Hey there! Tables PM here -- thanks for writing an honest opinion about what factors you're considering before wanting to use it for a business; I really appreciate that feedback and it's very helpful for us to hear.

I know our team would love to have people try Tables for lightweight work tracking use cases, even if it's not for a mission-critical business need. At the end of the day, we want Tables to help people and businesses make work a little easier, especially with covid forcing many to digitize and work remotely. If we're able to create a lot of value, that'll make for a strong case to graduate Tables into a larger Google product area, and we're only going to be able to do that with feedback from folks like yourself who can apply a healthy dose of objectivity. :)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, and we hope you'll give Tables a little time (even Keep took several years before finally joining G Suite)! I'll also take that feedback on the "beta" label back to the team.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#347

Post by jfoster »

dragonwriter wrote: post #332
jfoster wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a necessary lens to view any new Google product through, though. There is a real risk that they will abandon anything they launch.

> It is a necessary lens to view any new Google product through, though. No, it's not. > There is a real risk that they will abandon anything they launch. There is a real risk that any company will do that, either by internal choice, or by change of plan due to acquisition, or by business failures. It really isn't necessary or helpful for people who have no interest in Google products because of their view of the bra…

The products themselves are often very interesting. The next step in consideration is whether they are fit for purpose, though. Google have made a reputation for themselves for abandoning their products/services, but at the same time anyone pragmatic will realise that they won't abandon everything they launch. So if you're interested in taking up a Google product, you will then consider whether it's one of the products/services that they are likely to continue supporting or not.

I think it's highly predictable. Where in their org does it fit, how much have they invested in it, how big is the opportunity, etc.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#348

Post by ako »

catmanjan wrote: post #323
jeremyjh wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the major ERP/CRMs there was very little COTS that was as extensible and programmable as these low-code solutions. I think low-code term may have some mileage as its easier to say than "extensible like an ERP, but without the ERP".

You're thinking of things in terms of how they function rather than the value they provide - from a business value perspective COTS and low-code are identical, its just that low-code used to be GUI desktop apps, now they're GUI web apps.

It's much more than gui web apps, it also includes native mobile apps, headless services, integrations, etc.

And from a business value they're very different: COTS you do not want to modify/adapt to your busines, otherwise you get problems upgrading, etc. Low-code is often used to innovate and differentiate, as a programming layer to quickly change COTS to your business needs.

Disclaimer: working for a low-code vendor.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#349

Post by sundarurfriend »

jjeaff wrote: post #256
crazygringo wrote: post #193

As a product, this looks super-cool. However, I've got to be honest: while I'd play around with it while it's part of Area 120, there's no way I'd use it in a business until it officially became part of G Suite, as a core service . If Keep and Tasks are core services, then this needs to be too. That becomes a guarantee that it'll stick around basically forever. So it's very exciting to see Google launch something lik…

While I am also annoyed by Google's discontinuation of products, I would guess that the failure rate of saas startups is still much higher than Google's cancel rate. I'm not sure how many years a startup needs to be around though before it's likelyhood of survival surpasses that of a new google product.

We aren't comparing Google with random startups picked blindly though. I can only speak for myself, but any startup product I use gets chosen after a bunch of research, into their track record, their user interactions, their apparent stability, etc. While none of that can guarantee startup success, I'm more confident in going with a startup product that has been selected this way, than with Google.

Re: Tables: Tracking work for teams

#350

Post by andrewprock »

fearface wrote: post #342
haltingproblem wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's internal politics and business goals are well aligned for their employees . Adsense/Adwords spews tens of billions of dollars in profits every year. Google's political economy incentivizes groups to build new products not for their revenue streams but to claim larger bonuses of the ad-revenue pie. The users who buy into these "new" products are just cannon fodder in that game. Remember Google+? Vic Gundotra…

Which inferior product are you referring too?

Bing is the obvious product, but I'm quite confident that Bing will continue to exist for many years to come.
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