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The Era of Visual Studio Code

blog.robenkleene.com

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Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#241

Post by coliveira »

willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

My experience of IntelliJ is that it looks nice but it is very complex and offers little compared to Eclipse. For professional reasons I had to learn Eclipse, and now I see that IntelliJ gives a more polished product. But when I need to relearn all that I had with Eclipse, I don't see the point.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#242

Post by tybit »

willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

I can't stand writing C#/Java in VSCode and I can't stand writing anything but them in Intellij/Rider personally. It's a trade off between speed and feature set.

I'm glad it's one I can decide to make when and where I want to.

Hopefully one day a full featured IDE will be as fast as I want, but until then I'll be switching between VSCode and JetBrains products depending on what I'm doing.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#243

Post by jameslk »

willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

I used to use Intellij for everything (and I'm not even a Java dev). It is indeed very nice and comes with so much out-of-box around languages and popular libraries. However, Intellij is _sooo_ very slow to load and edit with. This is more tolerable if you work on one project. But in the past couple years, I've had to work on many smaller projects, and loading up Intellij for multiple projects meant gigs of RAM disappearing, along with that sluggish start time wait for each project and slow editing.

I really loved Intellij and I wish it could be made to run more efficient. VSCode fills the niche of "loads fast, moving around code is fast, and I can have many instances open at once without crushing my computer"

I guess it depends on the type of project you're working on, but I think these tools still serve separate use cases.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#244

Post by rckoepke »

vixit wrote: post #105
frankjr wrote: post #52

I completely switched to VS Code once I discovered the remote development feature [0]. It allows you to run VS Code locally but work on a project in a different environment (via SSH, Docker, WSL). The integration is seamless - search, debugger, terminal, extensions - everything looks and behaves as if it was running locally but is delegated to the configured remote. You can even have different remotes opened at the s…

Ooh, if IntelliJ gets remote functionality I'll be very happy.

I use JetBrain's remote python interpreter functionality[0] with great success and convenience. For anyone whose development environment is appropriate for its use, I honestly cannot recommend it highly enough. It's only available under the full "Professional" license version, however.

This uses SSH and SCP to automatically deploy the code to the remote environment and run it with the interpreter on that machine, rather than your own local laptop/desktop. One advantage is that it does not require any special software to be installed on the remote server. I believe VS Code's solution requires a pretty hefty installation consisting of basically an entire copy of VSCode onto the remote server.

The downside of JetBrain's approach... I believe that it requires a local copy of the files in order to perform the "LSP"-like syntax error highlighting / suggestion functionality that JetBrains software is so lauded for. This could be difficult/inconvenient if your codebase is particularly enormous, or if you aren't allowed to mirror it locally.

However, given the amount of support that JetBrains has for this kind of setup, I wouldn't be shocked to see an additional option for something more in the style of "VS Code Remote Development"

0: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/configuring-remote-in...

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#245

Post by hocuspocus »

paxys wrote: post #219
willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

While editors like IntelliJ are definitely more polished out of the box, something that may not be apparent is that internally they are all standardizing on tooling and protocols put in place by VS Code in the last few years. Language toolchains are now expected to provide IDE-specific features on their own (by implementing a language server), and so IDEs themselves don't need to focus on making the language better.…

In practice we're pretty far from that. Most statically typed languages, even fairly recent ones that took on LSP compatibility early, are still better supported by JetBrains' IDEs.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#246

Post by yelloweyes »

derefr wrote: post #238
willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

Fancy IDEs are lubricants for high-friction languages. If a language is already low-friction, there won't be much benefit to be gained from an IDE, as even a plain text editor will already get you near to optimal productivity in said language. Personally, I'd rather use a plain-old "code editor" (with at most syntax highlighting, but no snippets, let alone autocomplete), in part because doing so will actively steer m…

Java is not poorly designed though. It was built to be an enterprise language. 50 devs working on a 10 MLOC monolith type of stuff.

If you don't like monoliths and like to build hundreds of small programs that talk to each other, that's a different issue.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#247

Post by TaupeRanger »

zeroxfe wrote: post #165
macinjosh wrote: post #156

If you want a text editor with longevity try vim or emacs. They aren't dependent on the benevolence of a greedy corporation. Over time VSCode _will_ be raided by the bean counters at MS and it will begin to track you, give you ads about MS products, and lock you in to their ecosystem. I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc. Su…

Two decades of vim here, and I switched to VS Code. As a "professional developer", it's just nicer to use, and makes me feel way more productive than ever. I definitely wouldn't call it a toy.

I find comments like this incomprehensible. Are you using a Vim emulator in VS Code? If not, how can you possibly be more productive? People use Vim precisely because it offers a faster more efficient way to write code. What is it about VS Code that makes you more productive?

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#248

Post by Zak »

willbw wrote: post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

> I am not even sure I could write Java from scratch in Vim - its really that I'm using IntelliJ, not writing Java. Is this bad?

What I see here is the IDE being powerful to make up for a lack of power in the language. Is that bad? Maybe.

I tend to think it's bad because tooling usually does less for making code easy to read than it does for making code easy to write. Furthermore, one of the few characteristics that seems to consistently predict defect rates is codebase size.

On the other hand, increased abstraction can also require more effort to read, and you'll get a lot more resistance in most projects to switching languages than you would to you switching your editor.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#249

Post by bryal »

brandonmenc wrote: post #203
macinjosh wrote: post #156

If you want a text editor with longevity try vim or emacs. They aren't dependent on the benevolence of a greedy corporation. Over time VSCode _will_ be raided by the bean counters at MS and it will begin to track you, give you ads about MS products, and lock you in to their ecosystem. I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc. Su…

> I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc. To flip it, I'll never understand why a professional developer won't spend a measly hundred bucks on an IDE that has everything set up out of the box. Also, VSCode and IDEA are both open source.

VSCode isn't open source, but VSCodium (which comprises a significant subset of VSCode) is. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24561289.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#250

Post by bryal »

michannne wrote: post #226
macinjosh wrote: post #156

If you want a text editor with longevity try vim or emacs. They aren't dependent on the benevolence of a greedy corporation. Over time VSCode _will_ be raided by the bean counters at MS and it will begin to track you, give you ads about MS products, and lock you in to their ecosystem. I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc. Su…

You do realize VSCode is open-source?

VSCode isn't, but VSCodium is.
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