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The Era of Visual Studio Code

blog.robenkleene.com

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Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#201

Post by toupeira »

ohazi wrote: post #59
valvar wrote: post #42

For those that like Vim, but also like some of the features that VS Code offers, but do not like VS Code itself and/or its Vim integrations or emulations, I must heartily recommend coc.nvim [0]. It's like using a modern IDE, minus the bloat and anti-features which make most of them (including, of course, VS Code) painful to use. [0] - https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim

ALE [0] is also nice if you just want a lightweight way to add linting / formatting / name lookups / autocompletion without a lot of extras. It uses LSP for everything, and can apparently be used together with coc, although I'm not sure why you'd want both. [0] https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale

ALE also supports CLI linters and formatters, LSP support only came later and is entirely optional.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#202

Post by grishka »

jolux wrote: post #186
drdaeman wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the core product values for me. JetBrains IDEs are development environments, meant for editing code, in specific primary language. They really try their best to understand code that user works on (which is a hard problem, because code is frequently invalid while it's being actively edited), and make it as convenient as possible. VSCode is - in my understanding - essentially, a step over older glorified e…

IntelliJ Ultimate has support for all of the languages except C/C++, C#, and Swift/Objective-C.

But there are JetBrains IDEs for those too — CLion, Rider and AppCode respectively. No IDEA how well they work though.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#203

Post by brandonmenc »

macinjosh wrote: post #156

If you want a text editor with longevity try vim or emacs. They aren't dependent on the benevolence of a greedy corporation. Over time VSCode _will_ be raided by the bean counters at MS and it will begin to track you, give you ads about MS products, and lock you in to their ecosystem. I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc. Su…

> I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc.

To flip it, I'll never understand why a professional developer won't spend a measly hundred bucks on an IDE that has everything set up out of the box.

Also, VSCode and IDEA are both open source.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#204

Post by ethbr0 »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #192
jcrben wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way, it sucks when you've got a monolith full of unnecessary gadgetry. Right now VSCode is already getting pretty bloated w/ builtins

I could not understand why anyone would be happy if VSCode came with 50 core un-installable plugins and none of them were useful to you, since everyone has slightly different projects they're working on. It would be inefficient and it wouldn't cater to a larger user base.

There's a happy middle ground that far too projects choose: building a modularized system, but distributing core, currated plugins with the system.

Effectively, I don't care if I receive a batteries-included product where the batteries are pre-installed and on-demand loaded, vs one where they're permanently installed.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#205

Post by catern »

bitwize wrote: post #178
jimbokun wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like Emacs shares the same product philosophy of VS Code. Outside of the core functionality everything is an ELisp/Javascript plugin. That explains Emacs amazing longevity, but as the article points out, Emacs longevity is actually a problem as its keyboard and UI conventions predate the modern conventions that came with Windows and MacOS.

The difference between VSCode and Emacs is the difference between an extensible text editor, and an editor that was designed to be extended, molded, and shaped as you work. At any time within Emacs, you can evaluate Lisp code to extend or modify its functionality. What's more, the always-on presence of Lisp turns Emacs into a computing environment with strong editing primitives, rather than a text editor with stuff b…

I'd like to hear more about how you use Emacs as a "super-shell". Do you avoid shell scripts entirely in favor of Emacs Lisp? You mentioned network connections - do you actually do scripting with Elisp's networking primitives?

I've long felt that this was an obvious and good use of Emacs - as a central coordination point for the entirety of one's computational life, with everything manipulated programmatically from a single programming environment with both rich UI capabilities and a full-fledged programming language. No other project seems to understand the value of such a central point... but still, there are many ways Elisp could improve to make this kind of usage easier.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#206

Post by willbw »

ausjke wrote: post #115
lloeki wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It reminded me of using VIM as an IDE - not an IDE, a big pile of stuff that isn't integrated. I prefer to use Vim as a powerful editor, within Unix as my IDE.

same here, use it on the server and desktop, gave up on vscode one year ago, did not need my purchased jetbrains(webstorms etc) for 99% of the time. vim rules for me, as a full IDE from the terminal.

out of curiosity what language do you write primarily?

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#207

Post by corytheboyd »

andrewstuart wrote: post #21

I'm not a fan of VS Code because everything is a plugin. And plugins are inconsistent, buggy, inconsistently documented, hard to use and find and update and goodness knows who developed them. Plugins can be duplicated, outdated, abandoned and incompatible. But worst of all, a big pile of plugins isn't a consistent integrated product vision. I gave VSCode a solid go, and I had to keep installing plugin after plugin, b…

Ride or die Jetbrains fan here, completely agree with these points.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#208

Post by brandonmenc »

yepthatsreality wrote: post #118

VS Code is nice for green developers, however I always encourage finding a different editor. This helps encourage exploration, customization, and configuration. You will need to take the training wheels off sometime in your career. Another reason to prefer other editors is they tend to stay out of your way. VS Code tries really hard to make you not even leave the window. Anecdotally, a previous colleague once sold me…

> Another reason to prefer other editors is they tend to stay out of your way.

What does this even mean?

> VS Code tries really hard to make you not even leave the window.

Isn't this exactly what vi and emacs proponents cite as a benefit?

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#209

Post by gfody »

enlyth wrote: post #83
kushalpandya wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only problem with it is performance when you load large repos and occasionally large files because it is an Electron app eventually. I know the extension ecosystem has thrived just because it is Electron but I wish MS worked on a native editor to achieve it.

People like to bash VS code performance, but try opening a 60MB JSON file in different editors on Windows for example. Notepad doesn't even load and crashes, Sublime will takes minutes to even load the file, Notepad++ will be unusable as scrolling will take a few seconds, and in VS Code it opens immediately and you can seamlessly scroll to any one of the 600k lines without any delay.

there's a great but not well known editor for windows called EmEditor that has a strong emphasis on performance and large file support. afaik the author has a background in low level performance optimization from Intel. if you work with large csv and/or json files you want this editor - it's amazing!

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#210

Post by criddell »

macinjosh wrote: post #156

If you want a text editor with longevity try vim or emacs. They aren't dependent on the benevolence of a greedy corporation. Over time VSCode _will_ be raided by the bean counters at MS and it will begin to track you, give you ads about MS products, and lock you in to their ecosystem. I'll never understand why a professional developer would give so much influence over their work to the likes of MS, JetBrains, etc. Su…

It's not that hard to learn a new editor and learning new software is something I enjoy. Even if Microsoft does ruin VSCode, who cares? Vim and Emacs will always be there waiting.

In the meantime, I'm loving PyCharm for Python, Visual Studio for C++, Sublime Text and Obsidian for Markdown, VSCode for Javascript, etc... Different tools for different jobs.

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