Paris hails victory over short-stay rents • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#201

Post by mjcl » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #184

notyourwork wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many are in this category though? It seems like a minority case and any decent job which may require relocation or unpredictable permanence offers moving assistance that handles breaking leases.

It's a good question and a hard one to answer. Many factors could contribute to needing under 1 year leases. I don't have a good answer, but you can look at your local leases. Near me on apartments.com, the 'short-term' category is ~40% of all the listings. Drilling down a bit into some of those categories, 3 month leases seem to be the lowest, outside of month-to-month leases. My area may be an outlier, it is covid…

When the larger property manager companies offer short leases (3 - 6 mos) the monthly price is usually higher to 'recover' the cost of more frequent unit turns (Thanks to 'revenue management' from companies like YieldStar). These options aren't really intended for people on the edge, since applicants still need to pass the same credit screening requirements which are usually based on income to rent ratio.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#202

Post by Clampower » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:25 PM UTC

jdeibele wrote: post #166

As a family of two adults and 3 children we've very much appreciated being able to stay in places where we can cook for ourselves, be able to do laundry, and have space to spread out a bit. In the US, there are chains like Embassy Suites that work well for families because they have two bedrooms separated by a living/cooking area. The fact that they're typically far outside downtown matters a lot less because we've r…

It's nice that this is your preferred way to travel, but I live in Amsterdam and our city center is ravaged by tourists and the companies that profit off them. Enabling restrictions that limit overtourism, and that actively work to reverse the monoculture and disneyfication of our city are so incredibly important. Your ability to budget travel Europe with a family of five, due to your budget constrains, should not drastically raise rent and house prices. The center should belong to its residents.

Not only do short term rentals like airbnb drive up the prices for regular rent and ownership, but they negatively affect everyone who does manage to afford a spot. Living in an apartment block with one or several airbnbs is awful, destroys the fabric of neighborhoods, and especially introduces plenty of loud guests who don't care about the neighbors within the block.

Airbnb and similar platforms are exploitative of the environments that allow them. Your comfort to travel with a large family for cheap is not defendable against the negative impact on residents.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#203

Post by closeparen » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #181

closeparen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others…

>This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties. Being drunk and loud late into the night and not letting others sleep is not as disruptive as using land to live life.

If you’ve never been drunk and loud late into the night, are you really living life?

Nightlife districts and rowdy student/yuppie neighborhoods are as essential to the fabric of a city as its sleepy suburbs. If you want to go to one and live a quiet life, that’s fine, but trying to shut down your neighbors’ lives isn’t.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#204

Post by siberianbear » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

MrPowers wrote: post #188

CaptainZapp wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan, in a way, is a great counter example. As a gajin, no matter if tourist or foreign resident, you will never grasp the nuances of Japanese culture in detail. But you don't have to. You just need to understand and respect the basics. Be polite, respect customs, take your shoes of, when appropriate and you will feel welcome. It may be a lot harder if you live there and you'll probably never be really accepted. But…

I don't know much about Japanese culture, but I've heard some bars / restaurants don't even allow foreigners to enter, so I agree with your premise that being accepted depends on the culture. From what I've observed in Latin America, lots of foreigners commit big cultural faux pas without even realizing it. The standard American way of closing a car door is considered extremely rude in Colombia. Most foreigners leave…

Now I'm curious. How do Colombians close a taxi door?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#205

Post by detaro » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

siberianbear wrote: post #204

MrPowers wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about Japanese culture, but I've heard some bars / restaurants don't even allow foreigners to enter, so I agree with your premise that being accepted depends on the culture. From what I've observed in Latin America, lots of foreigners commit big cultural faux pas without even realizing it. The standard American way of closing a car door is considered extremely rude in Colombia. Most foreigners leave…

Now I'm curious. How do Colombians close a taxi door?

Very softly, apparently.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#206

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 9:11 PM UTC

mtoner23 wrote: post #193

RestlessMind wrote: post #138

> Short-stay specialist Airbnb said it welcomed a decision that "will go to help in clarifying the rules". Why does that leave me with a feeling that Airbnb now considers itself to be entrenched enough that they are welcoming government regulations which will prevent upstarts from competing with it?

Airbnb has been open about its willingness to work with regulators. They are honest about the fact that they are in a grey area and would like regulators to define the rules. but they also push back to say look, Airbnb is providing a service that is missed in the market so don't be quick to just ban it because hotels hate us. For reference: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airbnb-want-to-be-regulated...

[deleted]

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#207

Post by yardie » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #110

literallycancer wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there are problems with the place, like that it looks like shit you are going to ultimately win the chargeback dispute, but it's annoying regardless. And of course the Airbnb dispute resolution process is complete garbage designed to annoy the user enough so that they give up. Gotta get those numbers up, right?

Datapoint of just one: I had one AirBnB disaster as a renter. Support did initially steer me towards a compromise (to accept the place with a reduction in rent) but as soon as I persisted, they agreed to a full refund (including the platform fee). It wasn't a difficult experience at all. I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial.

> I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial.

I was in the south of France during peak vacation season. Every hotel in this small town was booked. With a toddler who was visibly worried and extremely tired. To put it conservatively, it was a fucking nightmare.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#208

Post by yardie » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #112

yardie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The…

> Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. is this really a good thing? once you start banning rentals in the 1-6 month range, you are no longer just targeting tourists. you're also hurting folks without stable jobs who can't commit to a typical lease length.

The average rent starts at $2500/mo here. That is $7500/mo gross single or $3700/person/mo combined income. Folks without stable jobs would have been weeded out long ago, unfortunately.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#209

Post by yardie » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #199

yardie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The…

I'm glad it worked out for you, but this is one of the main reasons I escaped condo life and will never, ever go back to living in one or in any place with a HOA. The idea that Nosey Karen 5 doors down can actually vote to prevent me from doing something legal in a house I own... well, it's just not for me.

If I could get a place without an HOA I'd do it in a heartbeat. But finding a home is all about compromises. Our realtor when we met I gave him my requirements. so he showed me those homes I could afford without an HOA. And they were rough in some really rough places. My other option is to move to an unincorporated part of the city, >2hr commute.

I'm active on the board and didn't want to get into the fight over Airbnb. But once we saw how much we were paying in additional security, insurance claims, and police and fire calls enough was enough. We've had robberies, suicides, and overdoses. I've got a great flat, it's downtown, looks out onto the bay and South beach. I'd love to put it on Airbnb, from time to time. I also know the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. You only need to get 1 bad visitor who trashes your place or gets into a fight with the neighbors.

But I fight tooth and nail against new bylaws. We have a good board. Most of the resident owners are young professionals, we make it known we'd rather not have an HOA so the HOA tries not to be visible.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#210

Post by Clampower » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 7:12 AM UTC

thebean11 wrote: post #39

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this argument holds less weight now that people in blocks of flats in some metropolises have less interest in interacting with their neighbours than decades ago -- in Helsinki for instance it is a faux pas to speak to one's neighbours, and some even claim that politeness demands you check through the peephole that the hallway is empty before going out, so you don't bump into a neighbour and make him/her u…

Interacting with neighbors is one part, but it's also things like noise, and the businesses in the area (catering to tourists vs locals).

Like when the Amsterdam city center, in addition to made in china pot leaf trinket stores, all of the sudden was overrun with Nutella Ice Bakery waffel stores, peddling some vague idea that tourists have about waffles and Nutella being local culture, making these businesses completely irrelevant to locals.