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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#351

Post by bluGill »

nicoburns wrote: post #284
bluGill wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is often a subtle difference: westerners are generally able to understand the situation and decide if they are inferior or note on a case by case basis. When my boss asserts authority that is different from the guy in the desk next to me, and I will react differently. Note that women have just won that position, and often will not fight for their rights like "they should". Also black people may have issues that…

> westerners are generally able to understand the situation and decide if they are inferior or note on a case by case basis. The scores of westerners who go to 3rd world countries to volunteer at activities they have no prior experience in says otherwise and think they are helping the "poor native people" says otherwise.

True, but that isn't a situation where everyone is supposed to feel equal.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#352

Post by almondcrunch »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #266
zapdrive wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm calling them a liar, because they ARE lying. I have had 7 years of college in India and not even once seen a students caste listed on any notice board. What i HAVE seen is their "quota", and there are many quotas: caste based, sports quota (for athletes), freedom fighter quota etc.

You do realize that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of colleges in India, right?

As reported in 2015, India has 760 universities and 38,498 colleges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_in_India

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#354

Post by anonymousJim12 »

I'm not sure if this will be seen but I'm very curious to hear from Indian folk:

I am the hiring manager at a well known software company that employs a lot of Indians on H1B visas. A while back I brought in an Indian person for a full round interview. This person happen to have pretty dark skin. On the interview team was a light skinned Indian person with a very Brahmin last name that I'd say is pretty average technically and wasn't my first choice to be on the interview team. The unbiased interview feedback sent to me was 5 yes to hire and the only no to hire (and strong at that) was the Indian interviewer...

A few days later I read about this caste situation at Cisco and I had to wonder...

Any recommendations on how I can avoid having this uncertainty if discrimination was at play? Seems like a pretty hard thing to prove.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#355

Post by GuB-42 »

newen wrote: post #240
GuB-42 wrote: post #131

Just looking at the numbers, that 90% of Indian techies are upper-caste is not that bad. According to the article the lower caste makes up 25% of the population, so presumably, 75% are upper caste. It means someone upper caste is 3 times more likely to be a techie compared to lower caste. By comparison, a man is 4 times more likely to be in tech than a woman, and asians in the US are 10 more times more likely to be i…

No, the article says Dalits make up 25% of the population. According to Wikipedia, upper castes (Forward Castes/Others) make up 18% to 30% of the population, depending on how they're counted, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India#Distribu...

Ok, the article wasn't clear about what is considered "upper caste" so I assumed it meant "not Dalits".

It changes the picture completely. That makes the upper castes 30 times more likely to be in tech than any other Indian, and who knows the ratio when only Dalits are considered, I guess more than 100.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#356

Post by bmurphy1976 »

anonymousJim12 wrote: post #354

I'm not sure if this will be seen but I'm very curious to hear from Indian folk: I am the hiring manager at a well known software company that employs a lot of Indians on H1B visas. A while back I brought in an Indian person for a full round interview. This person happen to have pretty dark skin. On the interview team was a light skinned Indian person with a very Brahmin last name that I'd say is pretty average techn…

This seems hard to prove regardless of skin/race/sex/religion. That's why you have multiple interviewers and hire mixture of all of the above.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#357

Post by codemac »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #311
triceratops wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is common for affirmative action students to not do very well there. Do you have any data at all for this? > Then it is not a stretch to imagine that some of them may not be very good at their job either. It's not right to assume that someone may not be good at their current job because they may (in your mind) have benefited from some "affirmative action" program far in the past (John Doe is 20+ years into his c…

This example from Thomas Sowell refers to affirmative action in the US rather than in India, but seems relevant https://www.pe.com/2015/12/17/thomas-sowell-mismatching-stud... >I became painfully aware of this problem more than 40 years ago, when I was teaching at Cornell University and discovered that half the black students there were on some form of academic probation. >These students were not stupid or uneducable…

> This favor turned black students who would have been successful at most American colleges and universities into failures at Cornell.

Data is still missing! This is just conjecturing that they're just not smart enough, which is incredible crap to me.

Anyone who went to college that had extenuating circumstances with their family or money rarely does well, regardless of how the school let them in. I knew all the kids around me at college who had to work to pay for rent/school/family etc because they wouldn't have time to come to any of our study halls, group work, labs, office hours, etc. They all suffered regardless of race, but you guessed it, somehow most of the latinx and black students had jobs, and somehow most of the white, chinese and indian students did not.

Unless there is some data that shows people of "average" intelligence cannot succeed at Cornell, I think we can guess that having an extra 20-40 hours/week of labor affects your grades than some classist "smartness".

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#359

Post by bluGill »

tomp wrote: post #305
bluGill wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible that higher casts selected for intelligence over the years. Since in India arranged marriage is the norm, parents can select for intelligence if that is a trait they care about. If there is a genetic portion of intelligence that can be selected for. Note the above uses words like "possible" and "if". I find it unlikely this is what was done. More likely - like every other society - they selected for po…

This is just an argument for IQ selection; applies equally to each caste as to humanity as a whole. But why would higher castes be more IQ selective than lower castes? Edit: anyone mind telling me why this comment is flagged? Did I say anything controversial?

As a rule all women breed (there are exceptions of course). In some societies high status males breed with multiple females and low status males have none. In most societies today marriage is 1:1, though there is lots of cheating but in general it means that some women will breed with low status males just for someone - thus all genes get carried on.

As I said I assume the powerful selected politically powerful mates for their girls, which might or not be intelligent as well. However it is possible that high status was high intelligence. The lower castes not following that.

Look, the above is all just barely possible. you will have to work with me here...

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#360

Post by MisterBastahrd »

higerordermap wrote: post #115
pringles_red wrote: post #104

I don't get why is everyone who is saying this a result of the reservation system is getting downvoted. I am an Indian and clearly reservation system is a spectacular failure. The reservation system actively creates a divide among castes. I will not be surprised if some these upper caste people who are fed up of reservation in India discriminate when they go to USA. These upper caste people are not discriminating due…

This. I think US people see caste system as something like skin color based racism in west. Actually it is much more complicated than that. I know people from upper castes who were actually middle class farmers, and those from lower castes that got benefit from quotas even if they were rich[0]. Affirmative action is always bad. Because the people getting benefit of it are likely to be privileged. In this particular l…

No, it really is not more complicated. The US has its own implicit systems of discrimination. The white racist from Tennessee is going to be looked down upon by the white racist from Connecticut who will be looked down upon by the white racist with a Central Park apartment.

Affirmative action is not "always bad." There are multiple purposes of affirmative action, some of which have NOTHING to do with the individual student.

About 60% of NFL alumni in the US are of African-American origin, and that number climbs every year. Most coaches in the NFL are either former players or coaches at some other level of football. The VAAAAST majority of coaches at the NFL level at ALL levels are white. Of the 32 head coaching positions in the league, only 3 are held by black coaches, and black coaches are more likely to get fired quicker than their white counterparts.

You know why? Because the owners are white. People hire who they relate to, and a white guy is going to relate to another white guy more than they will to most black guys. It's simple.

Same thing applies to affirmative action. A lower caste person who gets a chance and succeeds is more likely to hire lower caste employees. So even though those lower caste employees may not have been direct beneficiaries of affirmative action, they can still benefit from the network effect.

There is no reason to identify as "upper caste" unless one is interested in maintaining that hierarchy.

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