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Why books don't work (2019)

andymatuschak.org

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Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#201

Post by Uptrenda »

I honestly can't believe how many words the author uses to say nothing. It almost reads like a freshman trying to reach a word quota. Or an 'SEO expert' trying to keyword stuff for search rankings. Judge for yourself. Here is an excerpt from the main section on fixing books:

"bla bla bla... more blah...

So let’s reframe the question. Rather than “how might we make books actually work reliably,” we can ask: How might we design mediums which do the job of a non-fiction book—but which actually work reliably?

I’m afraid that’s a research question—probably for several lifetimes of research"

Woah... So tl; dr: author says books don't work because of rigid assumptions about how people learn; Takes tens of thousands of words to say this, and reaches no new conclusion that points anywhere. Woah... upboat.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#203

Post by mark_l_watson »

austinl wrote: post #132
hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

People also expect too much after reading a book just once . Reading a book once isn't enough to make a lasting impression, if you're able to remember anything at all — especially for a complex book like Thinking, Fast and Slow . The books I truly love, I've read at least three times, with pages full of highlights and notes. Re-reading a great book is worth more than reading the latest trends. Seneca wrote a bit abou…

I think that you are correct on the value of reading a book twice. I have a shortcut that still gives some of the multiple reading value: when I am reading a book on Kindle/PDF/etc. I hilite useful snippets. When I want a refresher on a book that I previously read, I start by just reading the hilited snippets and sometimes this is sufficient to remind myself what I need to know.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#204

Post by LudwigNagasena »

b0rsuk wrote: post #150
mindcrime wrote: post #74

I don't find this line of thinking to be compelling at all, unless you make certain assumptions that I don't agree with. For one, you'd have to assume that the "big idea" of a book is that you read it once, like a novel, and should have great recall of a large body of details / minutia from said book. IMO, it just "doesn't work like that." If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. Persona…

> If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. I have a mind-blowing insight for you. African tribes have figured this out. The way they teach history is by re-enacting events from myth and history. Those "silly" and noisy dances make a lot of sense. As Confucius said, I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. Participation in a tribal ceremony has the potential to te…

Idk, university classes seem a bit more efficient than African tribal dancing?

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#205

Post by dynamite-ready »

hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

Thinking of it another way, the author is challenging the efficacy of learning from books, which is actually a pertinent point to make in a post GPT3 world. But, tbf, the author doesn't make that specific point.

So long as I am able, I will always try to find time to read something new. Especially from books. I can't be precise about this point, but I seriously believe that the kind of information that can be conveyed in a book, cannot be communicated any other way.

I think it's fair to discuss what can be gleaned from a single reading of a book, but there can never be any question of just how much can be communicated by a book, and how much can be learnt from one.

The advent of cinema, and even personal computing, has only served to show how essential a technology the written word is.

It's going to take a very radical piece of technology to improve on it. One that we probably won't see in our time.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#207

Post by dynamite-ready »

amatic wrote: post #106
hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

I had a very different reading of the article. The author acknowledges that books do work after the reader actively engages with the topic, does the exercises, rereads, etc. The issue is that this process of transmitting knowledge could be more efficient in a different medium. The post is not against books, but pro interactive teaching methods, as the author gives a link to his proposal https://quantum.country/qcvc

I get that side of the argument, but without being scientific about it, I suspect that alternative methods of communication will only serve to communicate a different message... Like the difference between Kubrick's 'The Shining', and Stephen King's.

I suppose the author of the article would help his/her case with examples of how you can improve on what can be communicated by a book, but I reckon that might actually be impossible.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#208

Post by stevewodil »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #204
b0rsuk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. I have a mind-blowing insight for you. African tribes have figured this out. The way they teach history is by re-enacting events from myth and history. Those "silly" and noisy dances make a lot of sense. As Confucius said, I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. Participation in a tribal ceremony has the potential to te…

Idk, university classes seem a bit more efficient than African tribal dancing?

Not based on cost

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#209

Post by pell »

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #195
hacknat wrote: post #66

The very premise of this article shows how demented Western culture has become. The attitude of, “I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic” is absolutely insane. It takes a decade of serious work to really get a strong handle on a topic. Books aren’t supposed to teach you something to know, they’re meant to teach you how much you don’t know. Hopefully f…

Yes, I cannot personally fathom the appeal of things like Blinkist. "Get explainers of insights from 3,000+ bestselling nonfiction titles. Free 7-day trial. It takes just 15 mins to read or listen to the key insights from bestselling nonfiction. Audio and Text. Insights in 15 minutes." Personally I recoil in horror at their marketing as an "app for intellectuals". Genuinely, deep diving is frequently required. Summar…

I have a special distaste for their advertising scheme. Daily I will see ads claiming "Blinkist is the new hype in Berlin", "The app that all CEOs use", "The company that's harder to get into than Harvard", etc. We get it, it's Cliff Notes in an app.

Re: Why books don't work (2019)

#210

Post by eternalban »

Emphere wrote: post #117
mindcrime wrote: post #74

I don't find this line of thinking to be compelling at all, unless you make certain assumptions that I don't agree with. For one, you'd have to assume that the "big idea" of a book is that you read it once, like a novel, and should have great recall of a large body of details / minutia from said book. IMO, it just "doesn't work like that." If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. Persona…

Why shouldn't we have great recall of the details of books we read? All of the things you describe about actively engaging with the works you read are obviously correct (taking notes, summarising main points etc.). But often, I (and I dare say most people) fail to follow up with them effectively. As I see it, the author's question is: can we create a new medium which affords such active engagement with the works we r…

Visit a Yeshiva, or a Madreseh, or a Buddhist monastery, and behold a disciplined form of a "cognitive model" of learning from reading books. I knew this one Jewish guy who used to boast that he could press a pin into a book and tell you exactly what passsage of the book it was and what it said.

So the OP apparently thinks a novel construct can do what Yeshivas and Madresehs and Monastaries have been doing the past couple of thousand years.

Now if the OP can come up with an object that makes the user rock back and forth while in a trancelike state, then he probably deserves the academic fame that he clearly desires.

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